[R#186] T#186-T#197 Patch Discussion

[Divide]

Say one thing about the NC community, say they fight tooth and nails for what they believe is right.

[William Antrim]

I think maybe you're trying to read too much into a simple statement Kame. I took it to mean that all weapons should be as good as each other up and down the scale.

[Sevendust]

I worry about the future of the game and stuff like the DEV team not even having their facts together as a whole makes me cringe. Just look at the statements below, how does one guy says linear at TL75 and yet the intended graph shows TL49 ???

Why dont you guys put the whole roadmap for balancing up for discussion (With full details even) ?

Im sure the community would have great input, and it'd be nice to know where we stand right now vs the timeline of the whole balancing act.

....Because TL 75 is where the PvP weapons start. (Epic mission weapons) The GMs aren't stupid. They actually KNOW what the "pvp weapons" are. Hence, why they said TL 75. Letting you know from the epic weapons and up.

Anyway, yall can complain all yall want. The weapons are going linear, which means no more "best weapon for spies" - "best weapon for PEs" etc. No more OP'dness at all. End of discussion.

THOUGH, i definitely agree the dissy should be shortened to a 3-burst, and should be done before this DPM balancing is finalized. As I mentioned in one of my previous data-sheet posts, all prior versions are 3-shot bursts.

[William Antrim]

This was always going to be a divisive issue. I think we all knew that. It is an issue that is very close to all of our hearts.

[Dasore]

who are you person above me? @sevendust

Before there is any dmg changes there needs to be other shit fixed first.

1) Stack dmg on the right weapons/spells (toxic/firebeam, devourer and other flamers, single shot lowtech pistols, pumpguns)
2) right weapon behavior, like disruptor 3 shots/fl 4 shots/executioner more dmg in close combat etc
3) tell the community exatly what the plans are... i see no point atm in testing sth cause everytime i login sth is shit, stackdmg/ionics etc
4) some weapons seem to hit though shilds harder than others... why is that? i only say disruptor 4 example atm on retail

i dont mind spending some days for balancing but i see no point in posting sheeds here with dmg vs mobs/none moving players. in a real fight eveything is different, how fast is a burst, can i swarp to stealth or put away the weapon for faster runspeed, how fast can i aim, is the weapon missing more with a open crosshair or not, take the cs atm, u dont need to have to close the crosshair on the opponent cause most of the time 3/4 bullets hit and even the ones that dont hit do dmg. Some bullets get lost when running around a corner, plasma/laser, and others hit instant, ak for example.

/flame on

[Kame]

What I've been desperatly trying to say, in my very own clumsy way is

START BY BALANCING GAMEPLAY ASPECT BEFORE YOU EVEN TOUCH WEAPONS/ARMOR/IMPLANTS.

Gameplay aspect are more important than numbers for competitive PVP.

Were all gonna use the most powerfull weapons at the end of the TL ladder anyways.

[Tino]

Have y'all never seen the Lion King? It's the CIRCLE of Life...not the Linear of Life!

You think these problems with the weapons occur because of damage...no sorry its because there are flaws or problems with the weapons themselves and the way they work. Its been like this forever and still no changes made...how many years will it take to finally listen to the community and fix the aspects of certain guns that cause them to be nerfed in pvp...like creed/ravager not registering damage on an enemy that is running, dissy needing to be 3 burst, first love 4 burst, increase shot frequency on wyatt earp to equal BHG, increase damage for freeman and xbow (or give xbow some stack damage), etc

(most wont agree on the changes I proposed up there but they are simply examples and my opinions)

All it is going to take is some dedication and listening...instead of this broad thread there should be an entire thread on specific weapons that will allow us to argue about ways to make them better in pvp.

[Tino]

Can I point out that one of the reasons people give up on neocron is because they do not want to level characters up to woc just to be able to fight...I know that is why we are trying to change the weapons but maybe we shud look at making neocron double xp all the time so its easier for people to level...at least on the old server everyone had everything with maxed out characters so the only thing left for them to do was pvp...it was easier for noobs to get their hands on weapons, money, etc...look how many people were playing before this new server and when the new server dropped (I remember around 20%)...now look at the population once this server had time to mature lol...I realize making leveling and getting slotted weapons hard appeases the tradeskillers that play this game but look at what that does to the population...now your left with a game that sees 6-7% and no one fighting...just trading all day =)

IF YOU WANT TO FIX NEOCRON WE NEED TO FIX THE BROKEN OR OUTDATED ASPECTS>>>PEOPLE PLAY NEOCRON FOR THE PVP NOT THE PVE!

[Drachenpaladin]

PEOPLE PLAY NEOCRON FOR THE PVP NOT THE PVE!

Nope.mp3

[Tino]

Yup.mp3

OP fighting has pretty much died on the server and look what happened to the population...

[Dropout]

Yup.mp3

OP fighting has pretty much died on the server and look what happened to the population...

Yup..
Honestly, only known PvP'ers should be allowed to have a voice in the balancing project.

[Drachenpaladin]

Yup..
Honestly, only known PvP'ers should be allowed to have a voice in the balancing project.

Now that would be a circle jerk of epic proportions...

If you self-declared "pvp" folks would stop smelling your own brain-farts and get out of your ivory tower people would maybe start taking you seriously.

[Tino]

Now that would be a circle jerk of epic proportions...

If you self-declared "pvp" folks would stop smelling your own brain-farts and get out of your ivory tower people would maybe start taking you seriously.

Please do not start with personal attacks =)

[William Antrim]

The problem is as I stated already that buffing guns on a case by case basis as you gents keep asking for is not going to give any weapon any advantage over any other. It is simply going to give us an even bigger mash up of the problems we already have. Wiping the slate clean (as is being done) is a clearly logical way to do it because it is the only proper way to approach the situation.

what if a mechanic was introduced the same as monks have at the moment - half reticle closed and you do half damage per gun - across all classes? this would solve one problem of unequal damage but it would cause outrage among some people. It would cause mayhem (not necessarily of the mike variety) among certain circles in the game. This is just one suggestion, just like the ones you guys have thrown out. But each of these suggestions has further deeper consequences to make certain guns overpowered or underpowered.

Ok so what if we did away with reticles altogether? That might appease some and others might cry outrage. Again its just another suggestion.

The point is you cannot just carry on saying YOU SHOULD DO THIS.... to stuff. It needs a wide open transparent plan of action that everyone who has an ounce of experience can chime in on. That way the suggestions can be evaluated, sanity-checked, picked over discussed and then possibly torn apart.

this is later on in the development cycle. This patch was never going to fix things overnight. It was and is the start of something new. Until such time as a scheme is fixed - this dpm balancing is just that - then there is no point looking at individual guns because you do not know where they fit in to the big picture.

Tossing out ideas and implementing them just for laughs is A) a waste of DEV time and B) the easiest way to make a new overpowered weapon system.

A template needs to be formulated with a rigid set of rules to stick to up and down the tech level tree. Anything other than that is just pure chaos and therefore a pile of shit that nobody wants to deal with.

[Drachenpaladin]

Please do not start with personal attacks =)

Can't help but already feeling personally attacked by such kind of segregative and discriminating bile:

Yup..
Honestly, only known PvP'ers should be allowed to have a voice in the balancing project.