Silence

Celt I tend to ignore you these days because you twist words to your own agenda. If you can't see the point of my post then there is not much I can do to help you. Facts mean statements like hell demon mentioned. Luckily it seems at least he and I are on the same page. I think you are a rudderless ship.

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Originally Posted by William Antrim

In a year when the games developers have become even more transparent than ever before with the likes of twitch, live streaming, dev blogs and weekly video updates why does a phrase like "behind the scenes" still have a place in this world.

Surely even you guys can see the irony here. The lack of interest in logging in stems from just this problem. Everything is behind the scenes. If you made a post with some actual facts in it you would see a monumental difference. So many people still lurk here waiting for a revival which turns into digital dust with each passing year. It's high time you guys gave the loyalty of the existing player base a bit of respect and gave them something more than "we are working on something cool". 2003 is long gone. People want more than half truths and conjecture.

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For what it's worth, it may be worth dropping into Discord as we're pushing for additional feedback and raising questions there over the last few days. Previous attempts we've made many times in the past to get feedback through the forum, where we post long fact filled posts bare little fruit, so we're trying something a bit different.

First I need to make sure I can keep people around and then we need to make sure some of the plans we have are going to come to fruition. Once we get the first content patch out, which will bring changes in additional to Xanthos' great work from his 6 test patches released in December, we might be able to open up a bit more.

We're never going to be able to produce huge plan files or roadmaps or developer diaries as all of that time subtracts from development. I have always believed the most hype and increased population comes from the frequent release of patches and changes. New things for people to look at and explore and hit each other with, so my hope is this newly found energy in the team is used to do that.

For now though...

Here's a personal to do list:

• Fix weather;
• Make Tech Haven a functional place to live again, with enough vendors and levelling locations;
• Populate Tech Haven with the necessary NPCs and locations for the new TH based version of Mr Jones (improved experience for new players and characters);
• Bring the Fallen Angels home, finally removing all anti-CA factions from starting in the Outzone Apartment Complex (improved experience for new players and characters);
• Finally burn the Outzone Apartment Complex to the ground in my imagination, as in reality we need to leave it there to house pre-existing apartments.

Some great work destined for future release (via patch or otherwise) currently in progress from m'colleagues includes:

• Release the new Launcher to improve download speed and remove ancient blockers in the patching process for Titan;
• Further improving cheat detection and the automated tools which manage this;
• Fixing exploits;
• Resolving functional problems with the website (improved experience for new players);
• Addressing starting gear and setups for each of the 12 professions for each of the 4 classes (improved experience for new players and characters);
• Add the next chain of missions to guide Neocron City based runners post Mr Jones (improved experience for new players and characters);
• Finish the story content and NPC creation for the new TH Mr Jones (improved experience for new players and characters);

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Originally Posted by Hell-demon

Neocron needs more work and it's a massive undertaking for such a tiny team.

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afaik this is a free-to-play (because commercially failed) MMO run by a group of volunteers in their spare time. It's still there, after 15 years (just like Eve Online, but different), for us to play. And it's getting better, slowly. I don't think there will ever be real marketing, because NC is not run by a company anymore, and because there's no money involved, anymore. So marketing is probably going to be word-of-mouth, which means us. Same with activity ingame. I recently started a char, died a lot, explored long forgotten areas (died some more there), had a great time. If you want to do PvP, start a thread here on the forums, maybe, announcing a fight at cycrow next sunday at noon 12 GMT. Or whatever you're up to. You know, i don't think there's anyone we could direct our demands to. Because we're not paying for it. So Neocron has become more of a platform for our playful imagination. Which is exciting, isn't it?

I'd argue we're not even "free-to-play" as that has connotations of micro transactions, cash shops and other pay-to-win funding strategies. We're just, free. :)

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Originally Posted by Nidhogg

I'd argue we're not even "free-to-play" as that has connotations of micro transactions, cash shops and other pay-to-win funding strategies. We're just, free. :)

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Then why will no one play with us? ;_;

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Originally Posted by Hell-demon

Then why will no one play with us? ;_;

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You can't attract new players with Neocron that much... it's too oldschool and the veterans are busy spending their time in family business.

You have to face it - Neocron became old and the community became old aswell.

I've tried to get new players in but their only responses were "lol what clumsy characters" or "too toxic community" ;/

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Originally Posted by Trivaldi

Here's a personal to do list:

• Fix weather;
• Make Tech Haven a functional place to live again, with enough vendors and levelling locations;
• Populate Tech Haven with the necessary NPCs and locations for the new TH based version of Mr Jones (improved experience for new players and characters);
• Bring the Fallen Angels home, finally removing all anti-CA factions from starting in the Outzone Apartment Complex (improved experience for new players and characters);
• Finally burn the Outzone Apartment Complex to the ground in my imagination, as in reality we need to leave it there to house pre-existing apartments.

Some great work destined for future release (via patch or otherwise) currently in progress from m'colleagues includes:

• Release the new Launcher to improve download speed and remove ancient blockers in the patching process for Titan;
• Further improving cheat detection and the automated tools which manage this;
• Fixing exploits;
• Resolving functional problems with the website (improved experience for new players);
• Addressing starting gear and setups for each of the 12 professions for each of the 4 classes (improved experience for new players and characters);
• Add the next chain of missions to guide Neocron City based runners post Mr Jones (improved experience for new players and characters);
• Finish the story content and NPC creation for the new TH Mr Jones (improved experience for new players and characters);

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Don't get me wrong, it's good what you want to do, but were is new stuff for old players (i still have a free char slot so if this TH.Jones will come soon i will for sure check it). Can we have some events like NC1 "Laurent Hooverbombers" event ? For people who do not know what i talk about:
- there were spawning (prolly GM spawned) modified hooverbombers (only name, stats and loot table were different, textures and models were same so not much work on mob)
- they were hard to kill and even harder to hack (participated in killing and hacked one on Neptune but i had 125 hack back then when there was no hack privilegees, first to hack gets the loot)
- they were droping usuall stuff plus "Laurent Weapon Mods" for each weapon type (not sure if there was PSI version but whatever) something like Ultimas but you could use both Ultima and Laurent on same weapon (no balancing issue as with maxed pure conster + all possible buffs + some luck + ultimas you could make all artifact nearly anything), but many people really wanted to have for example "Laurent Ultimated First Love"
- event created many PvP ecounters as every1 and his clan were searching for them (not a case in our sitiuation, all server population i saw this morning would need minimum 10 min to kill one of them lol)
- the goal was to find the source of those mobs, so people were triangulating, calculating, speculating, that was fun
- event were never finished if i remember correctly because theu guy responsable left KK (or get kicked dont remember)

So all resources are already ingame, copy&paste mob and alert stats and loot table, copy&paste ultima and change name, etc. Of course i do not want you to make same thing, but lets try to use some imagination:

"Warbot Factory Security Chief confirmed today existance of big security breach in facility, details will be given to public in 14 days" (to get players informed before event starts). 14 days after: "Warbot Factory Security Chief: there are missing warbots, exact number is still not sure, they are carrying experimental gear, anyone seeing one of them should imidiately inform City Administration, Do NOT i repeat do NOT try to attack them" (sure we will not try lol :D)
Copy&paste factory warbot (4 times), change name, stats, loot table (easy), what should they drop (apart usuall stuff) ? Let see, maybe "prototype weapon parts" number 1 to 5, lets put in event 20 warbots so 4 of each part (thats why 4 times copy&paste) so there is exact 4 sets of 5 parts, let's GM spawn them (not all at once but let's say when one is killed gm spawns another in another zone but in a proximity of 2-3 clicks from warbot factory). What we get from those parts ? Whatever lets say "Last Love" after constructing you get all artifacted "First Love" with 1 free slot, different skin (change one or two colors) and different name, same requiments, dmg (like all artifact first love) so also not too much work..

Reasuming: not much work, if annouced 14 days before start we could see some more activity when event starts, not unbalancing the game, people would have some fun, maybe even some evil pk'rs would log in to hunt the hunters (also a good moment to test your anticheats lol) etc etc

Best one was Neocron getting attacked by mutants with rocket launchers. Plaza 1 was hit and there was a massive scramble to save Neocron and the vulnerable traders.

Or that event that was a hostage rescue from industrial sector and culminated with escaping through Neocrons sewer system fighting off pursuing mutants. Was pretty good and very tense to have someone hack the doors to progress further with mutants being spawned on top of us.

Only limit is imagination.

There have been lacklustre events which have been spawn mobs in wasteland and then pat on the back. Best events have creative spawns and other aspects of game play utilised.

One idea I had for an event was a diplomatic mission that goes south. A group of runners get stripped of all their gear to go meet a group of mutants raiding nearby outposts. Reason for the weapon strip is armed forces can be seen as a threat and this is a diplomatic mission after all. Well of course the runners are then held hostage in a cluttered garage. Luckily one runner is adept at recycling and there is plenty of junk. The event sees the runners making makeshift weapons and armour and fighting hordes of mutants with junk items in order to escape.

See what I mean. Use skills and mechanics to make different events.

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Originally Posted by Zoltan

I've tried to get new players in but their only responses were "lol what clumsy characters" or "too toxic community" ;/

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There is no community anymore because you've banned everyone that plays.

This is a good start. Posting official to do lists is good.

You guys are up against one man bands and indie developers now. Solid core mechanics can and will attract a few players along with exposure to retail outlets like steam. Look at the steam workshop for example. Is there anything stopping you guys from running a QA type of deal on submitted work?

A post like the above takes two minutes to write. An event like what hell demon posted takes maybe an hour to plan and implement - what is stopping you having a bit more openness about what's in store? What do you have to lose? All of the people still here have heard all of the reasons given previously and all of em are still here so that says to me they accept it for what it is. So what about having another go at that feedback request?

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Originally Posted by William Antrim

This is a good start. Posting official to do lists is good.

You guys are up against one man bands and indie developers now. Solid core mechanics can and will attract a few players along with exposure to retail outlets like steam. Look at the steam workshop for example. Is there anything stopping you guys from running a QA type of deal on submitted work?

A post like the above takes two minutes to write. An event like what hell demon posted takes maybe an hour to plan and implement - what is stopping you having a bit more openness about what's in store? What do you have to lose? All of the people still here have heard all of the reasons given previously and all of em are still here so that says to me they accept it for what it is. So what about having another go at that feedback request?

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Think you have to pay steam to be on there. Or some clause about making money. Neocron has no cash shop or any modern trappings you get from modern mmo's.

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Originally Posted by William Antrim

Celt I tend to ignore you these days because you twist words to your own agenda. If you can't see the point of my post then there is not much I can do to help you. Facts mean statements like hell demon mentioned. Luckily it seems at least he and I are on the same page. I think you are a rudderless ship.

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Addressing the flaws in your posts isn't twisting words, and I don't have an agenda.

I unfortunately do see the point of your posts, which is why I'm able to point out the silly stuff in them.

I think you're accusing me of being what you are i.e. a rudderless ship.

I'm fully ok with how they are developing NC and the method in which they choose to engage with the community, you clearly are not. You keep trying to make your personal problem with that into being a general problem. You whine about stuff, you're always negative, and you always make the same point in different ways before running away when anyone has the temerity to challenge your repeated crap!

It'd be fine if you were honest about it, but you always mask your personal issues with the development style behind a facade of "objective criticism". There is nothing objective about your criticism.

I should add, Nidhogg finally permabanned me from these forums for being critical about the NC2 launch. I am hardly a fanboy from olde returned to rhapsodise anon.

The thing is nobody cares.

There might be a new interest in cyberpunk MMO fueled by upcomming series Altered Carbon and Cyberpunk 2077 game.

Even the movie Ghost in the shell might have increased the awareness a bit.

But, who knows?

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Originally Posted by Celt

I should add, Nidhogg finally permabanned me from these forums for being critical about the NC2 launch. I am hardly a fanboy from olde returned to rhapsodise anon.

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Hmm, where did I put that hammer?

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Originally Posted by Nidhogg

Hmm, where did I put that hammer?

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Do it. It's rusty and he's coming off as a malcontent :D


Anyway it's good to see the thread is slightly alive, albeit the only one active. Can we get an ETA on any of the new content? An approximation?

Within a month? Half a year?

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Originally Posted by Zoltan

I've tried to get new players in but their only responses were "lol what clumsy characters" or "too toxic community" ;/

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Ok, this is valuably customer communication. Out there in the real world you'd work with that by

A) advertising Neocron 2.3. Evo as the most RETRO cyberpunk postapokalyptic MMORPGFPS ever (think Fallout 2 online) , and by
B) banning everyone having an account today and concentrating on new, fresh, motivated gamers.

...maybe start with part A) - really, NC is such a rare gem, a unique game, the last of the "real" MMOs, and it's even more: it's 2 games for the price of one. At first, it's an MMORPG with classes, professions, character development, teamplay, social support, and once you're levelled up that toon of yours, it's an MMOFPS like Planetside, just more way more dark and gothic. And it's free.

You wouldn't steal a lot of customers from the likes of Destiny, but many others. I smell hope, even if you don't.

and B) banning the toxic guys never hurts. (Not me, i'm not toxic. Just a little, maybe.)

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Originally Posted by Torg

B) banning everyone having an account today and concentrating on new, fresh, motivated gamers.

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I'm motivated ! Every few years :D

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Originally Posted by FarSight

I'm motivated ! Every few years :D

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It's the neocrack. It's potent. Just when you've settled down, got a career and education - hey maybe even a lovely lady by your side! Then suddenly WHAM!

Relapse and possibly a prolapse from sitting on your arse for playing neocrack at weird hours of the morning...or night.

We will never be free.

It's really not a good idea to press for time scales as that just ruins everything. After all of this time I'd hope people would be able to refrain from asking for something so paradoxically bad.

The wish list idea is at least borne of optimism and is preferable to silence also. As for flame wars or attempts to stoke them... truthfully I thought that was a thing of the past also.

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Originally Posted by FarSight

I'm motivated ! Every few years :D

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Originally Posted by Hell-demon

It's the neocrack. We will never be free.

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that's the spirit.

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Originally Posted by FarSight

As for marketing some1 could do remake of that movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW23ob82coo.

About the game, i installed today made baby tank (transfered multitrader from Terra), it was fun (like always was) running with newbie grenade launcher in oz-2 spider storage lol. But after 3-4 hours i asked myself whats the point ?
Some people here are givving their thoughts why neocron failed as a game (not keeping players). I got mine too.
For me biggest mistake was made in Beta4 (open beta) of Neocron 1. For people that didn't played back then at start rules was like those:
- FFA full loot
- in general no rares or other crap like this (faction items etc), every item was researchable and constructable (even COPOT Plasma Rifle)
- higher item requiments for people with LED in (like 10% higher so if req was DEX 50 it was 55 for LED ins)

You can imagine how it was, most players first thing were doing was getting LED off, there were fights everywhere (even over rats in lvl1 sewers), equipement even top end (TPC for example) was affordable (slot enchancers purchasable) so players wernt afraid running in best gear all time, full loot ... with everything fast replacable it was no problem (and if was common to see 2-3 30/30 trying to gank one 50/50).

Then 3 things happened in no particualr order:
- PvE players (yea in pvp oriented game...) whine about item requiments, so KK deleted that system, that alone killed nearly all low-mid level pvp experience (no need to LED out until 80ish in main stat)
- introduction of rares + full loot whine (those 2 things are really combined), KK wanted to keep pure pvp audience but also pure pve folks, so to already good xp grind they added rare (faction whatever) items grind, those items as rare were better than top end normal so every tank and his mother wanted a CS, but hey i got my CS but now i'm afraid to go out because i will lose it ....

Those 3 KK decisions were game changers (or killers), players were leaving, pvp and pve as not many were happy with this SEMI FFA SEMI full loot SEMI grindfest ALOT crashing game (i forgot SEMI open world... l)

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I played in beta 3 (Veronica) and it was really good and fun. Essentially the way it should be.
Then beta 4 open beta, people made suggestions and ... developers listened sadly.
Never listen to the clueless masses if you have a vision but they didn't have a vision.
Clueless being the keyword. And if you try to please everybody you end up pleasing no one.
Less is more etc.
That equipping your weapon raised your level was the biggest turn off.

Regardless, game released, I create a Tank (DarqTank) and I don't remember who the guy was but he was #1 and I was chasing him. He was like 5-10 points ahead. I don't remember what happened but I quit playing, I don't think I maxed it out. So that's my motivation right now. Getting my tank maxed in this game and do some sightseeing.

I didn't know there was a different Neocron. Where did they get the server software from?
That video looks nice, that "neocron classic".
The new UI forces me to play at 1920x1080 on a 4k monitor because it's so tiny and the font is awful tbh.
But hey who am I to complain it's free and it works.

However attracting new people with this isn't going to work lol.

Is there was way to have the classic UI back again?

I have a question .. game will be based on Titan client (1 crash per day, quite good for NC game) or Veedena (spelling) test server client (crah every 90 seconds lol with same rig and settings) ?

Altered.Carbon. is live !

Sorry you came to this game so late, it was once all of our pass time, we loved it and it was because it did have a much higher population with much going on, but please do not let these slow times deter you from playing this game. Most of us vets are just popping in every now and again to checkup on it, I would hate to see this game come to an end because it was genuinely a great idea, a fantastic storyline of what a post nuclear war earth could be like. I did play this game in beta it took 6 days to download via a link on gamespy? On a 56k modem during my army leave some time real early 2000 or 2001 I think, erm Saturn was the server and it had I think around 600 - 800 players it was very insane in plaza, you could not move from one end to the other with out being pushed around by the congestion, the place was full of tradeskillers all selling their wares.

Pepper park was a bloodbath, rampant pking but it was fun! I lost my first gun just trying to kill some of the higher players, I remember being a total carebear and raging about it, the guys came up to me and hand me a different gun that I could not even use due to my skill point allocation. But when I left the army I came back to retail and I enjoyed this game so much that I would play in excess of 8 hours per day, not healthy but very fun. I am one of those players that longs for that sort of game to come back onto the scene and I reckon that the devs really need to start thinking about creating neocron 3... YES from SCRATCH! Crowd source it, get coders willing to work on it for free if necessary.

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Originally Posted by Hell-demon

I'm not saying we should follow what they do. I'm merely saying that they have a good portion of the old vets. Another problem is we need new blood. Everyone who played Neocron in it's prime is now in their 30's or older and has social responsibilities. We need young new players as well.

If you type Neocron into YouTube it's grim. Get videos from the classic camp or ones saying Neocron is dead. We need some serious PR and marketing.

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hehe new blood hehe man...


No they need to follow examples of successful games in modern times, modding, addons opening up the game to the playerbase which they probably will never do, cost is a poor excuse for lack of development, more talent is out their then they think. Hell I'm not great at coding myself but even I could debug code... Then there are probably many artistic people that could totally redesign every mob, dynamic thing to not look so dated, everything was said years ago before now.

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Originally Posted by LiL T

...start thinking about creating neocron 3... YES from SCRATCH! Crowd source it, get coders willing to work on it for free if necessary.

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Crowd sourced game development hm? I don't think that would work very well, any projects with playable results?
Crowd funding did how ever create star citizen out of the cry engine for like 100 million dollars😂.
If neocron really is the like crack....

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Originally Posted by illidan

Crowd sourced game development hm? I don't think that would work very well, any projects with playable results?

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Certainly not the System Shock remake which raised $1.3M on Kickstarter only to go into "indefinite hiatus".

I think the whole crowd sourcing for games is too risky for investment from both parties.

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Originally Posted by Nidhogg

Certainly not the System Shock remake which raised $1.3M on Kickstarter only to go into "indefinite hiatus".

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Don't get me started. Bloody kick starter.