Solo or grouping - what should the game be balanced for?

**kakihara** · 07-12-16, 00:32

http://www.strawpoll.me/11815637

I'm curious what the community thinks.

How many of you non-social-butterflies are able to do real group content? How many of you have recently obtained a bat queen chest or a titan vest, or done DOY tunnels?

I'm not talking about people in clans.

How many people of the 300 (114 logged in, I assume 300 real people total recently) or so people playing this game right now are actually able to get groups if they are not in a clan? I highly doubt that anyone has been able to find a group to do real group content in this game if they are not in clans.

And why take out your LE so you can be ganked constantly and lose your gear, as you are working hard to actually make your character viable for pvp? I'm not taking that risk yet, and neither should any real newbie to this game.

**Sidhardha** · 07-12-16, 01:50

Doesnt work like that.

Solo content is solo content. Group content is group content. The need to organize and team up with other people is also part of the gameplay goals. Either way you play the game to play WITH people, or AGAINST them if you aim for endgame pvp.

Inability to go to hard dungeons/kill strong bosses solo is logical and fine - they are designed to be like that. The fact that its harder now to organize for it, just makes it all more valuable for you instead of trivial thing you might have done passing by in other era.

This game needs goals, more of them - more thing to achieve and do, desperately: because when you done them all, you`ll just get bored and move on - since currently, the sandbox part: that relies on social interaction and conflict, is actually the most weak part because of small community. So the Path is actually also a goal.

And why "not talk about people in clans"? Because thats kinda the point. I am playing solo currently because of how i want to manage my time, as well believe it to be most effecient. I will however search, or if stay long enougth to be motivated even organize one, bringing my friends over, Just like with PvP, the only reason not to join clan is not wanting to be commited too early.

So no. Game shoudnt be balanced neither for exclusively for solo nor for group content - this is this and that is that. Leveling curve could and should be made more comfortable and streamlined for new players, that doesnt mean however the actual group content should be changed to be doable solo: in fact, some of the older players that already achieved a lot, farmed all rares for 9000 times and cappted 5th ceres on all chars would love for a new Challenges.

You can cap your character solo. You can farm rares solo. So depending on class the real challenges are MC5 and Ceres, thats it. And the Bosses are bosses, plus - Neocron still being social game you can actually just buy stuff you need, as nothing is soulbound thus giving you shortcut to achiving things you want.

There is however one thing thats important to mention - Neocron is originally a German game, with primarily European community and hosted in EU: with current population its comfortable to play in "prime time", however i can think for american and some other players from separated time zones, finding other people could indeed be difficult.

**DIS** · 07-12-16, 01:50

Without a group its near impossible to enjoy those types of zones, for DOY tunnels and Crystal caves a PPU and good DPS is a must, being in a clan which does this on a regular basis will of course allow for good runs in these zone.

However I am sorry but to say that people are really making more of an issue concerning ganking that there actually is.

During peak I made a new tank, pulled his LE out in the middle of pepper park and then I soloed him up to near cap STR. I did not put in any implants to around level 40 and I have been ganked once when I alt-tabbed for 5 minutes in the outzone and quite rightly a red faction member killed me. I dropped a stam booster, not that it really matters what you drop at level 30.

I have had a few shots fired at me in pepper park while doing my epic and I've been killed a few times when I have attacked a higher level player just for the fun of it.

Ganking is not a major issue, avoid crowded area's where gankers will go, most will not bother you in DOY tunnels, or high level dungeons, but expect to be attacked in MC5 as there is only one base commander and a lot of players wanting MC5 chips.

But adding to that, I am a very experienced player, I know places to go to avoid most gankers and I am always watching for anyone approaching me in the zone, if they look dodgy then it's a case of jumping on a quad and going somewhere else.

Removing the LE adds a lot more depth to the game, it makes soloing tedious mobs a hell of a lot more interesting with another player in the same area, do I attack him? Will he attack me...? Most of the time they are thinking the same thing and a simple hello in zone chat will usually break the ice, you never know they may even want to team up with you.

Not everyone is out to get you, most just want an easy time hunting their favourite mob, not everyone of course.. some players will simply see you as competition to be removed.

And what's the worst thing you are going to drop? A medi pack? A crappy piece of armour? Most gankers are not going to bother hacking your belt unless they want to troll you buy dropping in your dog tags. Keep your gun in slot 1, if you have an epic weapon it won't drop anyway and keep away from MB if you don't want trouble.

I would challenge anyone to get to level 29 without an LE, you could always pop it back in before 30 and see how often you actually get ganked and you will probably find that players in local make you nervous so then you have to socialise with players in order to smooth things over... add someone you teamed with to buddy list and give them a shout if they are levelling and that from my experience is how a lot of clans were built from.

**kakihara** · 07-12-16, 03:27

You guys need to understand the difference between "group content" and "requires a PPU" content.

There is no such thing as group content in this game.
You want to do mc5 in a "group" without a PPU? good fucking luck.
You want to do bat queen in a "group" of 5 pistol spies? LOL
Oooh, how about running DOY tunnels as a group of 3 rifle spies?

Oh.... what's that? None of these are viable?
Oh.

Maybe this game doesn't have "group content" after all.

Maybe it's just "requires PPU" for certain things.

But then let's ask this question to the NST: do you seriously expect 33-50% of the population to be a PPU to do anything non-solo related?

**Sidhardha** · 07-12-16, 10:45

That logic doesnt make sense since it applies to every MMO ever. Do you expect to do group content anywhere without healer? Partly on low stages it was addressed with nanites, but for proper content you still need healer (and Tank, also not so necessary in Neocron).

So what i expect, is most people actually having multiple characters. Having one of them PPU to be able to help friends in group content is not huge deal, especially in Neocron you dont have to "main" it, and can just level APU fast and then LOM him. Clans should also have "dedicated" PPU, helping them level even if needed - and i see people actually doing that ingame too.

Plus as you told about "pistol spy","rifle spy" - classes dont have to be all good in same things, they own have their roles. Its pointless comparing tank with droner, droner with sniper and sniper with pistol or melee. Some are better in specific situations. Chosing "race" and main weapon you take the advantages and limitations of those in account.

**Skansy** · 07-12-16, 11:20

Hi Guys ...

You all know, Neocron is an MMO ... so anyone need to be a Healer

Why anybody should play PPU, if you dont need them?
Everyone can heal himself a bit, a hybrid much more ...

So u guys want High End PvE Content everyone can solo?
And after 1 or 2 Weeks of farming, everyone got the Stuff he need ...

Better have PvE Content you need a real group with PPU and some Damage Dealer ... i realy like the damage boost of the MC5 Commander.
If they fix the solo pull ... MC5 will be very hard ... and it should be VERY HARD
Maybe change the loot table to (1-3 MC5 Parts) if u have to kill every NPC and run around the hole Map.

Originally Posted by kakihara

But then let's ask this question to the NST: do you seriously expect 33-50% of the population to be a PPU to do anything non-solo related?

But every PPU have to make a Fight Char to do this PvE Content?
Cause, if u can solo it ... why u should take a PPU with you and share stuff?

And if u play solo only ... u can farm Tech Parts and buy the stuff of the End Content PvE

**Nara** · 07-12-16, 15:32

While I agree that the game needs more group content the issue is that this is foremost a PvP game and those who already got MC5 (probably solo lols...) just got handed a huge advantage.

So yes, game needs more group content. But it doesn't need a massive gap inserted between the haves and have nots, especially when many of us have nots are just trying the game again. Add new group content and something above MC5 and let us all have to group for it.

**Zoltan** · 07-12-16, 17:30

*is going to implement some item sucking syncs* - Problem solved @ Nara ;p

tbh. with Neocron Evo 2.2 the game become easy... too easy and it successfully destroyed any motivation to look for / build a team because it wasn't necessary for at least 9 years.

Yes the game has changed to a point where you can't solve anything your own that easy and this is an intended feature.
You have to involve other players now

**Michael Myers** · 07-12-16, 19:11

i kinda agree with Zoltan, id rather put a random team together to so do something. Hell i will quite happily come PPU for anyone if im asked. (for a fair cut of the spoils of course :P)

The other night i did DOY tunnels with two random players after just advertising on the in game chat. its not that hard!

**Nara** · 07-12-16, 20:38

Originally Posted by Zoltan

*is going to implement some item sucking syncs* - Problem solved @ Nara ;p

You owe us a few hundred drones from Sunday already

**Brawl** · 08-12-16, 13:18

Depends on how well you know the game tbh. I can solo a lot of 'group content' and have been doing so for years. More recently duel logged apu ppu doy tunnels, WOC tunnels. Piece of cake, yet to try new changes to mc5 but I'm sure we will find a 'feature' that allows for solo play. My advice level a ppu and run two clients

**Odimara Orca** · 08-12-16, 13:54

Originally Posted by Brawl

Depends on how well you know the game tbh. I can solo a lot of 'group content' and have been doing so for years. More recently duel logged apu ppu doy tunnels, WOC tunnels. Piece of cake, yet to try new changes to mc5 but I'm sure we will find a 'feature' that allows for solo play. My advice level a ppu and run two clients

Yeah. It's so great to make content harder.

But the only damn effect in neocron is that everybody levels a pocket ppu to do group content solo anyways.

It really doesn't go well with mechanics in NC. As it was stated group = PPU nothing else. There are no dedicated CC roles like in other MMO's. But it makes solo play damn harder.

Especially the MC5 changes are just dumb if you consider the already abhorrent prices of implants which are mandatory for competitive PvP.

Then also think that this sets an arbitrary and ridiculously high barrier of entry for the endgame content (which is PvP in NC) and it get's obvious that this PvE focussed idea is not for the kind of MMO NC is.

**kakihara** · 08-12-16, 18:12

Originally Posted by Odimara Orca

As it was stated group = PPU nothing else.

Especially the MC5 changes are just dumb if you consider the already abhorrent prices of implants which are mandatory for competitive PvP.

Then also think that this sets an arbitrary and ridiculously high barrier of entry for the endgame content (which is PvP in NC) and it get's obvious that this PvE focussed idea is not for the kind of MMO NC is.

This is the shit I have been trying to convey.

There is ZERO content in this game which requires another player, but that player is not a PPU. Either it can be done solo, or it requires a PPU. There's no such content that a single HC tank can't do, but 5 pistol spies can do.

No such thing as "group content" only "content that requires a PPU"

Zoltan, I'm curious if you can give me examples to prove me wrong. Give me an example where you require 2-3 people, but they don't have to be a PPU. If you cannot give me an example, then your idea of "group gameplay" is wrong. You don't have to involve "other players" you just have to "hope a PPU is online who can help us."

As I have stated before: do you realistically expect 33-50% of the population to be PPU to access endgame content?

But I can talk about this all I want. There's no point in my talking about things that are wrong unless you offer a solution. The solution being: reduce incoming damage from PvE mobs. Make end-game PvE accessible for solo players. MC5 is a requirement for PvP for almost all specs. There are very few people who would jump into end-game PvP without having a minimum requirement met.

I will also add, the only reason I give a fuck about this shit is because I have passion for this game. I'm not talking shit for no reason. NST has done a great job to revive this game to this point, but I think unless some key changes are made, the population will not sustain itself. If we set the barrier too fucking high, people will just give up. Consider the age of most people playing this game. We aren't 15-20 years old anymore, with unlimited game time. Almost all of us would have full-time jobs, and some even have kids and/or spouses that require attention. With unlimited game time, if it takes someone a month to get geared up for end-game pvp, how long would it take a more casual player?

Or is this game only for the most hardcore and all the fucking casual kiddies need to pack up their shit and go buttfuck something else? I typically only buttfuck on Tuesdays, but I have been known to make exceptions.

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