Your input on: Drugs

**LeoPump** · 16-11-15, 21:10

Without selfkill command: "friendly fire" to die.

**Bragi** · 17-11-15, 13:23

Originally Posted by Torg

yes, annoying. but if the drugflash was removed, drugs would be a requirement instead of an option.

I wasn't talking about removing it. Was thinking more of a return to NC1/2 style were flash is always completely removed by redrugging.

**Torg** · 17-11-15, 15:48

Originally Posted by Bragi

I wasn't talking about removing it. Was thinking more of a return to NC1/2 style were flash is always completely removed by redrugging.

redrugging doesn't work anymore, not even a few times? i need to test it....
but what about an intoxication bar, not unlike the nanite toxication bar we already have, so players could avoid over-drugging and thus keep the probability of a drup flash low? of course in this model all drugs and pharms, including stamina/psi boosters, medi-packs, stealth breakers, damage blockers (but not food) should contribute to a small extent.

**Bragi** · 18-11-15, 01:24

Originally Posted by Torg

redrugging doesn't work anymore, not even a few times?

Yes and no.

Redrugging removes the majority of flash (and nearly if not all of it the first time). But each time a drug runs out and you redrug, the residual flash gets more and more, until play becomes unbearable. At which point you selfkill-rez.

At an OP fight of more than 20-30mins, this really puts a spanner in the works in terms of game continuity.

**Torg** · 18-11-15, 17:27

Originally Posted by Bragi

Redrugging removes the majority of flash (and nearly if not all of it the first time). But each time a drug runs out and you redrug, the residual flash gets more and more, until play becomes unbearable. At which point you selfkill-rez.

At an OP fight of more than 20-30mins, this really puts a spanner in the works in terms of game continuity.

Ah... yes. That's why i stopped using drugs in OP fights years ago, while drugging up for higher weapons or missions is quite helpful imho.

I totally agree it's a pain to get stopped by drugflash - but that's the trade-off, isn't it? and making drug-use easier would remove this trade-off, at least to some extent. even if the flash could be delayed indefinitely by eating more and more drugs, so you could fight for hours and have your toon cool off afterwards in the appartment or faction HQ while you're getting a beer - this would also remove the downside, and everybody would have to use drugs in PvP, all the time. Do we want this change?

**Bragi** · 19-11-15, 00:19

Originally Posted by Torg

I totally agree it's a pain to get stopped by drugflash - but that's the trade-off, isn't it? and making drug-use easier would remove this trade-off, at least to some extent. even if the flash could be delayed indefinitely by eating more and more drugs, so you could fight for hours and have your toon cool off afterwards in the appartment or faction HQ while you're getting a beer - this would also remove the downside, and everybody would have to use drugs in PvP, all the time. Do we want this change?

Indeed. Which is why the drugs proposed on Vedeena have negatives and bonuses as a means to alter the setup, rather than the Titan system, which is purely beneficial (stats-wise).

**gstyle40** · 19-11-15, 07:36

Originally Posted by Bragi

Indeed. Which is why the drugs proposed on Vedeena have negatives and bonuses as a means to alter the setup, rather than the Titan system, which is purely beneficial (stats-wise).

now i get....NOW I GET IT!!! Anyone paying any attention should be able to see, You Bragi are a PVE"r. The changes made to drugs on Vedeena and getting rid of drugflash would be a perfect world for.....LEVELING. Allows u to use that next up weapon and never have to worry about drugflash. Currently on Vedeena the drugs make the skill levels higher, and give negatives to things like body health and runspeed(these arent important for pve) and totally screw pvp. If the changes made to drugs on Vedeena go thru and u make drugflash less of a pain, the pvp community will stop using them all together. The drugs are fine how they are on retail now. So either leave them be, rework the plus v malice equations, or get rid of them entirely. IMO those are the options

**OLD No.7 BrAnD** · 19-11-15, 11:53

Originally Posted by gstyle40

So either leave them be, rework the plus v malice equations, or get rid of them entirely. IMO those are the options

Agreed, posted my point of view already. I still keep my fingers crossed that the current state of drugs on the ptr will never hit "retail".....

**Odimara Orca** · 20-11-15, 13:18

Originally Posted by OLD No.7 BrAnD

Agreed, posted my point of view already. I still keep my fingers crossed that the current state of drugs on the ptr will never hit "retail".....

Just Please, Please

Streamline the drugs.

The values are all over the place and often don't really make sense.

My proposition:

1) Drugflash mechanic stays the same
2) Remove coma Values
3) Remove unneeded Drugs
4) Add drugs where necessary so the Options are equalized

Look at the drugs in the attached Excel Sheet, would they be acceptable if they hit live?

NC_Drugs.xlsx

**Bragi** · 20-11-15, 22:25

Originally Posted by gstyle40

now i get....NOW I GET IT!!! Anyone paying any attention should be able to see, You Bragi are a PVE"r.

Actually, I was coming at it as a PvPer. Maybe not the kind of PvPer you are, bit still.

Here's a question:
Do you think a drugged PvPer should be more viable than a PvPer that doesn't drug?

The drugs are fine how they are on retail now.

The reasons being?

rework the plus v malice equations

Very much in the offering.

**gstyle40** · 21-11-15, 05:13

Originally Posted by Bragi

Actually, I was coming at it as a PvPer. Maybe not the kind of PvPer you are, bit still.

Here's a question:
Do you think a drugged PvPer should be more viable than a PvPer that doesn't drug?
.

currently u dont HAVE to drug to be viable, some of the best pvp'rs dont drug for op fights. I myself only drug up about half the time. if i feel im being hit more than i should, then ill take para and redflash to see if it makes a diffrence. those drugs make me harder to hit, but it also makes it more difficult for me to lock the reticle. An un-oportune drugflash on the wrong char is a death sentence, but thats the price u pay for drugging. Setups are not cookie cutter, everyone doesnt have their skills applied the same, so drug effects are different on most players setups. If u are going to change drugs thats fine, but the current application on vedeena is not the ticket. Im not alone on this.

player skill > drug effects everyday of the week

**gstyle40** · 21-11-15, 05:23

well, u have to drug for melee.....but thats a different problem all together

**OLD No.7 BrAnD** · 21-11-15, 13:53

Originally Posted by Bragi

The reasons being?

TBH i'm losing my faith in you and your work if not even you do read the entire thread. Why are we posting anything at all?
I'll try to sum it up once again...

atm retail:
+ they can in fact enhance/boost your performance for a certain amount of time
+ but you're still not "forced" to use them (already explained this in previous posts)
+ they provide different setup options and possibilities for your characters = more variety in the game

- longer fights can get "complicated" (correct redrugging)
- you get a flash, which is a big but acceptable downside
- they do cost money (so nothing entirely free)
- you need fsm access in order to get them all (except for the raredrugs)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

atm ptr:
+ there are no comma values (e.g.: 2,16)
+ you're not forced to use them because they don't provide anything of good use

- almost all drugs are freakin useless compaired to "retail" (cmon, they are shit)
- the variety in character setups gets limited du to this fact
- longer fights still can get "complicated" (correct redrugging)
- you still get a flash, which now is an even bigger downside
- they still do cost money (so nothing entirely free)
- you still need fsm access in order to get them all (except for the raredrugs)
- with the comeback of the freeze-machanic it could be a necessity to take anti-freeze drugs from time to time (even harder to manage)

Of yourse you can argue that they are not entirely useless. Here's a short example:
Entire bonus-malus of a common 4 drug setup (Paratemol X-Forte, Redflash, X-Beast, Destrosol X-Forte):

retail: +2,16 CON, +2,16 DEX, +2,16 STR, +2,16 INT, +21,66 ATL, +21,66 AGL, +21,66 HC, +21,66 WPL, +17,33 HLT, +17,33 TC, +17,33 WPL, +8,33 FRC, +8,33 PRC

ptr: +5 CON, +5 DEX, +5 INT, +5 STR, +15 HC, +15 MC, +20 Remote Control, -30 AGL, - 15 TC

And now pls tell me, why should i consider taking them again? Don't we lose a certain amount of character variety due to this? Aren't they pretty much useless if you consider all cons? Wouldn't it be better to take them completely out of the game before making them like this? (I'm not rooting for this!)

Or maybe would the best option of all be:

Originally Posted by Odimara Orca

Streamline the drugs.

1) Drugflash mechanic stays the same
2) Remove coma Values
3) Remove unneeded Drugs
4) Add drugs where necessary so the Options are equalized

But you tell me please...

**bobhoskins** · 21-11-15, 20:17

Originally Posted by Bragi

Actually, I was coming at it as a PvPer. Maybe not the kind of PvPer you are, bit still.

Here's a question:
Do you think a drugged PvPer should be more viable than a PvPer that doesn't drug?

The reasons being?

Very much in the offering.

Just like to add a quote from Braggi while testing weapons with him on test server.... "Apologies for my aim, i'm just into PVE"..

**Odimara Orca** · 23-11-15, 11:30

Originally Posted by OLD No.7 BrAnD

But you tell me please...

Huh?

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