Reviving Titan

[jvasquez33]

1 day per character? Is this guy playing the same game lol? It's not really 140 actual players, thats just the number of logged in accounts. I have a few accounts logged in myself, and I know a few people that also have couple logged in too. So either you are completely new to the game (given your 2012 join date) or you just love the korean grind (which is fine, I don't like crazy boring grinds).

[Drachenpaladin]

I don't like crazy boring grinds

Then go back to CS:GO or wherever you've been hanging out. Of if thats not your cup of tea sign up for Toxikk or whatever...

[jvasquez33]

So crazy korean grinds are fun to you? Mindboggling.

[Drachenpaladin]

If you think Neocron is as bad as a Koreagridner you have no idea what you are talking about

[jvasquez33]

From Lineage to Lineage 2, Aion to Tera and Archeage, personally for me Lineage 2 was the worst. Really comes down to how young you are and how much free time to play you actually have. If you are young and naive (like you seem) then sure its no problem to make getting your characters up and running a lengthy task.

I get it, longer character development equals longer life of a game for the most part. But hello McFly, its 2015 and we are pushing what, 'maybe' 100 active players? Why not just change the current pace to maybe jump start it, or at the very least try to see what happens? Unless you played Neocron in beta or launch then you have absolutely no idea how much different Neocron is with a booming population. Pretty sure everyone that was there can agree on that.

[Drachenpaladin]

Sure. Ok. Lets ramp XP rates up to eleven. Make everyone come out of MC5 capped and put the GR destination to the medi, next to the MC5 vendor. Sure gonna keep people playing that way... or you know, they just go play CoD instead...

[Dasore]

i play the same game as you jvasquenz33, but as i see you are not familiar with neocron if you want a instant woc start into the game and dont trust me that you can do it in 1 day

thats just my new forum account, i started playing neocron beta back in 2002?

and no, i dont really like grinding shit like in other games, but having your character instant pvp ready only leads to 99% unused accounts cause cs and cod kiddys ll join, flame the shit out of the game cause they are to stupid to aim, pve is the best way to train that and also get used to your character in harsh situations and like i said before, without equip capping in 1 day doesnt lead to anything cause you got 0 stuff then.

but how bout we also remove item drops if you die, outposts give you free pink ponys to ride through the wasts and if you beat the mighty dragon in the old dungeon you can even get a flyable one?

[jvasquez33]

Sure. Ok. Lets ramp XP rates up to eleven. Make everyone come out of MC5 capped and put the GR destination to the medi, next to the MC5 vendor. Sure gonna keep people playing that way... or you know, they just go play CoD instead...

Keep people playing that way? Take a good look around you bub, there isn't that many staying around regardless.

[jvasquez33]

i play the same game as you jvasquenz33, but as i see you are not familiar with neocron if you want a instant woc start into the game and dont trust me that you can do it in 1 day

Take a very good look at my join date and my signature, i've been here from the start.

thats just my new forum account, i started playing neocron beta back in 2002?

If you did and loved the population, why you wouldn't want any type of change to spark it up again is beyond me, downright batguano crazy.

and no, i dont really like grinding shit like in other games, but having your character instant pvp ready only leads to 99% unused accounts cause cs and cod kiddys ll join, flame the shit out of the game cause they are to stupid to aim, pve is the best way to train that and also get used to your character in harsh situations and like i said before, without equip capping in 1 day doesnt lead to anything cause you got 0 stuff then.

Lets face it, hardcore full loot servers just don't last long, and that niche of a playerbase is just too small to make a game flourish nowadays. There is only one game currently out that I know of that has that, and that's Darkfall Unholy Wars, and guess what, the population is tiny. I love hardcore full loot games and loved Neocron when you could take peoples weapons, it was insanely fun. Lets be realistic though that increasing exp rate would somehow make people "flameout", like i've said before, look around you, not many people stick around regardless.

but how bout we also remove item drops if you die, outposts give you free pink ponys to ride through the wasts and if you beat the mighty dragon in the old dungeon you can even get a flyable one?

Not entirely sure why you would even say that, maybe a mountain dew sugar rush, or off the a.d.d meds?

[Divide]

outposts give you free pink ponys to ride through the wasts and if you beat the mighty dragon in the old dungeon you can even get a flyable one?

This sounds like GOTY material.

@the naysayers RE: increasing XP-
PVE is more than leveling. In fact, most non-Koreagrinder MMO's with any sort of staying power have significantly greater amounts of end-game content than leveling content. The fix for PVE isn't to force the PVE-only experience of leveling, it is to broaden it by making it richer and more compelling. So people WANT to go PVE.

Making end-game PVE more formulaic by implementing a loot system where specific techs can also drop from pre-destined regions and/or specific mobs/dungeons coupled with a broadened experience where 99% of the seemingly un-purposed elements, actors, and mobs in the world are given some context and purpose would give players a sense of coherence and connection with the world, which would revolutionize the entire experience-- Into something that could maybe actually grip new blood long enough to permanently taint.


Turn shitty, useless, low-level content into real end-game content. Boom. Solved. PVE your faces off and your hearts out.

They say you can't ever go back home. It's true. Neocron will never be the game it once was for any of us no matter what steps we take or how much money we donate or time we contribute or anything we could ever do in a million years. That time has passed, and the opportunity now to reminisce for the rest of our lives is right in front of us. The grand majority of us reminisce about it while it's right on front of our faces. While we are playing it with our crew to this day. Why do we choose to hang up on the past instead of trying something new?

I don't know, signed the dude with a self-validating title referencing the days of yore.


That time is gone now, those people are gone now, those social constructs and emotional anchors are only in what remains of our memories. It's hard to let go, but that is how you move forward. You can always hold on to what is truly important. I'll leave it to you surly assholes to fill in the last sappy line here.

[Drachenpaladin]

I'll leave it to you surly assholes to fill in the last sappy line here.

Mmmmmh, maybe something like: Lay off the booze?

[5150]

Probably going to get flamed for some of this but.....

Unfortunately the solution isn't always to give the players what they want (SWG was a perfect example of this) some changes may be good in the short term and detrimental in the long. Also some design decisions (LOM xp loss) make more sense with a larger population where you are trying to encourage interaction (prevent one guy doing everything himself), but are detrimental in low population (and also punish the new guy for not understanding skill usage).

Increasing XP over long periods/permanent would remove the 'grind' yes but without [enough] end content to entertain (and I'm not just talking about OP wars) that player may leave sooner than they would if they had needed to take longer to level (assuming the 'grind' isn't offputting) although ultimately in this example they would still leave.

I think the problem with 'grind' is partly due to the fact that rank (level) is a dynamic stat (due to buffs) and therefore isn't highlighted like an attribute increase (and several increases in attribute may not have any impact on rank which can be disheartening for new players as they don't feel they are progressing) and partly due to the undirected nature of kill missions in NC (I'm not saying this is a bad thing).

NC differs from other games in that kill missions are not associated with a specific zone nor do they indicate a zone where they might be completed. From an exploration/open world perspective thats cool but doesn't help the new guy that just wants to get some xp/cash.

Perhaps kill mission descriptions need to suggest locations where the target can be found (e.g. lvl 1 sewers) and also display the xp rewards as well as the cash & symp? It may also be helpful to suggest a minimum rank alongside the difficulty which is not very helpful.

Is there anything that tells a player hitting rank 10 that the Epic run has just become available for them?

Granted the above doesn't change any 'grind' but it does allow a new player to more easily direct their efforts towards levelling. Ultimately the min/maxers will always look for/find the most optimum way to level even if it is soul crushingly boring. Soon that becomes the accepted 'norm' that every new player will be told in the help channel and the next thing you know NC has a reputation for being a game with a soul crushing grind just to cap so you can PvP.

For example, most people use Aggy cellars for low level characters, the suitability of this obviously varies by class but it's much easier to run 'Hard' captain missions with a character straight out of MC5 when there are several people running the cellars, but solo certain classes may need to spend considerable time running 'Very Easy' missions in the sewers before they attempt to solo the cellars. Therefore an influx of new players makes the levelling experience easier (and more enjoyable) for all those new players vs. one new guy levelling up on his own.

I'd _like_ to level for example by just exploring main cellar/Outzone but I know this is not as 'efficient' as chain running Captain missions in the cellar and there's no incentive (beyond my curiosity) for me to visit those other zones. I can choose to go anyway if I'm not bothered about my rank but everyone else seems to have the 'grind to cap' mindset.

I think the other mistake vets make is assuming that everyone wants to PvP, granted it's a huge part of the game design but, balance issues notwithstanding, I wonder how many people are out there who would still be playing if it was a little more accomodating to other playstyles?

I'll use Eve as an example. Eve is undoubtly a PvP game however it is perfectly possible to play Eve entirely PvE (suicide ganks notwithstanding) and the game doesn't 'punish' you for it.

NC1 initially had dual skill reqs. (higher for LE) and xp/cash tax and NC2 has reintroduced the tax after a certain rank. NC also prevents LE players from forming a Clan and social grouping is a basic requirements/expectation of any MMO. I think this is backwards, there should be incentives to removing the LE rather than penalties for keeping it in.

As an aside Eve also enables a brand new character to play a meaningful role in PvP whereas PvP in NC is the preserve of the [very nearly] capped.

I wonder how many players back in the early days of NC1/NC2 were put off by the fact that the game all but insisted you take your LE out and then got killed while looking around Pepper Park by another player in a one sided fight just because.

What I'm basically saying is that perhaps NC, like Eve, needs to accomodate PvEers/Explorers/RPers with a view to converting them to PvPers later down the line (which would require allowing the LE to be reimplanted potentially at any level if the player didn't get on with it). The appeal is there as NC has huge exploration and RP potential.

I guess it comes down to would you like a bigger server population of which about 100 [currently] PvP or a server population of 100?

[chrissi]

very good post imho. for the LE thing it might be an option to prevent LE users (like myself) from the very highest equipment, but invoke no other penalties. this would enable them to participate in the entire game except for the highest level stuff instead of standing aside until they open themselves to unbalanced PvP... just an idea

[Divide]

Proposition for the NST/Community:

5150 and I will work together and vet all ideas or changes. This man knows how to bring ideas and thoughts to the table.

[Darkener]

I was half considering coming back but after losing my original char it was like why bother. I left the game before the exploiting ect got really bad and lost everything in the wipe.

I still remember getting my 4 slot cursed soul in NC1, and fighting across most of saturn with it (dont know who this Divide scrub thinks he is but i believe it was Zonespeak who was king) great times but all those good memories are now on a backup somewhere.

The game is just to old, to clunky for me to even want to get into it again. Even if i did want to get give it a try the leveling mechanism is crap. You would think in this day and age to encourage more people to play they would give at least 1 char that is capped for you to jump into.

Unlike the folk who stayed with the game and were bored and wanted a challenge of rebuilding again, newer people or players who left and came back don't really want to jump in from zero.