[R#186] T#186-T#197 Patch Discussion

**BlueRobot** · 25-04-14, 19:07

Removed! - Lets keep things on topic shall we?

**Kame** · 25-04-14, 19:10

[Edited - Let's stick to the topic]

**William Antrim** · 25-04-14, 21:25

TankJr

I have just read through the last few posts of yours and I think what you are asking for is a set of milestones that you can give advice to new players on for overall guidance in their setups rather than actual precise values like 10 points here and 5 points there etc.

The problem is that I think what you are asking for is impossible to give right now. If new players come into the game as it stands there are two very different versions of nc - retail (the old school way) and the new Test Server way (the future of NC hopefully).

As the second one is COMPLETELY open ended at the moment and nobody really knows what the future will look like nobody can really help you with either precise statistics or even the generic milestones it seems like you are asking for. A lot of things are still subject to potential change.

When the balancing is done and the new skills values/items/whatever else changes has been set into stone then player guides will appear. People will be eager to write up this stuff to help the new guys, there have been some great ones down the years.

As for now all I can suggest is that you ask these new players to learn the game AS IT STANDS right now as plenty of people can help with questions there but tell them to expect a lot of things to change in the future. PVE will always be PVE but the pvp end of the game should theoretically be much easier for them to get a grasp of by just playing around with set ups on the test server.

If you want to get involved and test then you can do, you do not need to be an uber pvp god to stand still and shoot another guy in the face (also standing still) and submit those values (the little red numbers that pop up) on a spreadsheet to the devs. If the new people want to get involved then they can do too, bearing in mind that their experiences are of as much value as everyone elses in this respect.

The thing that you have to understand is, as Dasore hinted at, when it comes to defining classes based on the feel of them in live fighting environments their lack of experience will make things difficult for them to contribute. Nobody here should ever say someone elses opinion is invalid, many will disagree but at the end of the day no opinion is wrong, it is simply an opinion. Only facts can be wrong but when these facts and opinions get crossed over you get arguments.

There will probably be plenty more arguments yet but that is all in the nature of testing this game and everyone here understands that. It was never going to be a nice little tea party when adult males play a game with guns involved.

But yeah feel free to test away to your hearts content but please do understand that at this time your request just cannot really be filled.

**Tankjr** · 25-04-14, 22:00

Tanks for your Adivse, but i say it again. Mate, i dont want any Helps for Setups or 10 Points to set on this and 5 on that - no !
If a Noob opens Nskill for example and tries to build his pic, ..

- he doesnt knows the most possible runspeed which u can get, the Maximum which u maybe have to reach.
Why should i spend 150 to Agylity when this thing is got fixed ? Simple or ? I can read in the past Patchnotes what changed but how should he know when a limit is reached ? And why can^t Dev explain or say this ? I thought they limited the runspeed on retail since Terra, so there must be an answer or something like that which says - People if u spend more then 130 on Agylity, it doesnt maybe take 4% on Performance instead of setting 120 Agyilty and having 100% ??! where is the Problem ? and you Guys say, no there is no Answer for this - sorry have to laugh about.

I dont want to know how many Ressists my Character has to reach,or any other Settings. Those things are simple questions aka Basics and i thought there is maybe an announcement which was placed for the runner since some changes did changed or took effect now.

Another Thing, noob opens his Damage Logs, he can see that Type of Ammo which effects tbc, a lot of numbers and Counts.
How can he know the Limit of this Calculation ? beginning and ending of this Count ? These are Basics for me, if i want to get deeper in this buizz i think its necesary to know this. How should i read this corectly out to talk about whats to much or something ?

That no one wants to speak about his Setups, normaly .. i wouldn^t too.
Dont think to complicated - its simple what i ask for. and if u ask someone, they dumb or speak shit - like always hapens here.
A handfulf of People maybe, not more.

Thanks for Info, back to Topic - its okay for me ...
Just trying out, if Noob is asking me why his allover Ressists doesnt climb up to 100 % in nskill - i can^t asnwer him, sorry for bringing this shit back again.

**William Antrim** · 26-04-14, 01:43

I have started this post about four separate times now and I still cant make out what you are actually trying to say.

You are worrying about some other third party who may or may not have a clue about how the game works and you are having a stress about problems that some other generic individual may or may not have? Youre asking for these solutions for the "noobs" but you acknowledge that the game is in a state of flux here and is subject to massive changes that can and will affect ALL of the gameplay mechanics.

You want some form of direction and clarification on stuff that isnt even yet fully decided and you dont want this for yourself but you want it for some faceless, nameless noobs that youve met in the game? There are about 100 people playing currently at peak and you have managed to find the only genuine noobs and they havent yet made it to the forum so youre arguing for them? If you want help with the current game go to techhaven.org it has all the resources as up to date as you are going to get right now.

Thats how your post reads to me anyway. I am not sure if youre asking for help or making suggestions. I am trying to discern which it is but as previously stated there is no way you will get answers to these questions yet. They havent been decided. It just kind of rambles on a lot and is difficult to follow. Can you possibly just use really short statements saying "I would like to know what the runspeed cap is?" and "I would like to know what the resist cap is?"

This thread is about the latest patches being installed to the test server and therefore it assumes some form of experience and prior knowledge of the game in order to form a baseline understanding and therefore comment accurately on the changes and their effect on the game.

what you keep asking for is stuff that should go in an entirely different forum, the new player forum - failing that if you are fluent in german then perhaps it might be better being posted in the german half of the forum as you might be able to get your point across better there?

I am trying my best to be as clear as I can but it doesnt seem like you even read my previous post tbh.

**Tankjr** · 26-04-14, 09:43

Sorry Guys, keep your Discussion going in.
I recieved a private Message with listed Details which i call ' Basiscs'
The Post is archieved in the Forums (2006)

Specific Listings about each Character, for example how Damage, Aim Speed, Aim Precision, tbc got calculated.
And that we have an Eficency of 1% up from 100 Agyility when spending more Points on it.

Have a nice Weekend and maybe Delete my Postings to go on.
I know that this Thread is about Balancing and i am reading it cafefully.
I understand what the Devs actually want, how to test same classes or different classes shooting 1v1
..and so on.

For me its important to have the Knowledge on Basics to get deeper in those Testings to understand it better.

Thank you all !

I got The Answers for my Question..

**Drachenpaladin** · 26-04-14, 13:38

Now if you might want to share that post so we all could be enlightened...

**Tankjr** · 26-04-14, 14:31

Sorry, Mate ..back to Topic.
Since i started to ask for some Knowledge what i cal *Basics* the Main Discussion stopped.
Or like Kame worte, crashing the whole Thread ;-P

At least, if someone is able to send me an Redirect or pacific instructions how to convert, calculate all the Numbers of the
*Damage Log* it will be helpful.

Thanks, have a nice Weekend !

**Divide** · 26-04-14, 17:58

This thread is beyond tldr, it needs to fork.

**brand** · 27-04-14, 21:42

i m not sure what we should test on the testserver? i was in the shooting range now and you kill people with 2 shots with higher tl weapons. if the damage is reduced so you could do a normal fight you could maybe test the balancing.

**jj dynomite** · 28-04-14, 01:06

Originally Posted by brand

i m not sure what we should test on the testserver? i was in the shooting range now and you kill people with 2 shots with higher tl weapons. if the damage is reduced so you could do a normal fight you could maybe test the balancing.

Just test the damage per shot in the shooting range. Make sure you have all of your personal stats, weapon quality, ammo mods and the like logged when your report.

**walkman** · 28-04-14, 13:31

Pretty nice last patches. I like new Wyatt Earp and Backup Gun.

DoTs looks like broken same as injectors, even firemobs deals pretty big damage via DoT. So, I dont know what we will got in the end for DoT-based weapons.

Shootrange room is not a good place. First it is indoor. Outdoor's range calculations has different mechanic. Secondly, mobs in the room moves through "walls" and this is annoying.

Something I cant understand. I did tests in DoY sector 5, sidestreet. And tests showed that DPS/DPM of Judge and Slasher less then in Shootrange room. I used xray ammo mod for all pistols. And Judge with Slasher looks bad there. While Backup Gun, Liberator and TT epic pistol took first places. Anyway, on firemobs Judge, Slasher doing misses and damage that they deal still less. I suppose you may look at them closer. May be I am wrong and dont know something...

I saw that you changed MRL shot frequency too. Its good decision and I like it.

I will try to complete some tests in PvP later.

In general, I like last patches. Thank you!

----

UPDATE

Suggestion I: put in shootrange room mobs which people know. Or create another room. Because I cant even say damage increased or decreased. I know that damage weapons deals on Titan on some mobs, and in shootrange room unknown mobs. How to compare? Or what we need to compare? In description of weapon we may see what tyoe of damage and how many damages it deals already.

Suggestion II: If first suggestion can not be completed when open all (or 50%+) OPs. Its not funny run from one point 3-5 sectors to complete tests in another sector. There are not so many people who make tests in OP fight. And if they are doing this they could close OP for that moment.

**Bifrost** · 28-04-14, 15:07

Originally Posted by walkman

DoTs looks like broken same as injectors, even firemobs deals pretty big damage via DoT. So, I dont know what we will got in the end for DoT-based weapons.

@Walkman - I'm currently doing some investigation on nanites. Can you let me know which nanite injector tool you are using, and which nanites you have tested with. Also let me know your character class, INT, IMP and T-C skills please. If you are using the personal injector tools, let me know your CON and HLT skills as well please.

**walkman** · 28-04-14, 15:35

Nickname: Walkman
Class: PE, full capped with woc dex +3

INT: 59 (-1)
STR: 58 (-2)
CON: 66 (+1)
DEX: 101 (+21)
PSI: 35

Brain: SSP, CCP, SFC and CCC v1.2
Pistol eye 0.3
Strengten heart 2.0
Recycke glove
Exp. reflexbooster v2.4

Injectors: TL 16 and TL 40
Health: 75 (+13)
P-C: 222 (+85)
T-C: 89 (+47)
AGI: 76 (+26)
Recycle: 24 (+13)

The issue with injectors written in their description. Numbers are very big. In first time TL 40 deals around -40 hp and then insta-heal to maximum. They are stays same from patch T186. It is good to have such insta-heal tool for testing purposes

You may watch at changes on firemobs. Where you see Doomreapers those through at you 2 dots and in next seconds you lose half life? Seriosly, on Titan doomreapers cant cause such damage. I am wearing full inq set + light fire resi belt. Fire stats: 130/163/136.

And now I tested Hoppers. Well, on Titan I can survive with 3-4 DoT from Hopper. What is happenning on Veedena? Two DoT took 600+ hp for same setup. Own fire resistance is 50.

Thank you.

**walkman** · 28-04-14, 18:53

Jump and fall == insta-death. Before my previous post this was not an issue....

---

Titan:

DAMAGEINFO - Time 5629.471 Damage (Walkman): WeaponID 620, DmgID 2240, DmgFac 0.670, Energy 2.680, Effect 26.264, Height 57.000
DamageCause: Injector!
DamageType: Direct!
INS - PCR: 2.680
DOT - FUL: 13.400, DoT: 4030, Duration: 30.000
DOT - FUL: 12.864, DoT: 4037, Duration: 30.000

DAMAGEINFO - Time 5631.875 Damage (HOPPER): WeaponID 0, DmgID 1701, DmgFac 52.910, Energy 52.910, Effect 0.000, Height 0.000
DamageCause: No weapon!
DamageType: Over Time!
INS - FIR: 52.910

DAMAGEINFO - Time 5632.125 Damage (Walkman): WeaponID 620, DmgID 2250, DmgFac -12.850, Energy -12.850, Effect 0.000, Height 75.000
DamageCause: Injector!
DamageType: Direct!
INS - FUL: -12.850

Veedena:

DAMAGEINFO - Time 6424.116 Damage (Walkman): WeaponID 620, DmgID 2240, DmgFac 1.300, Energy 130.000, Effect 50.960, Height 57.000
DamageCause: Injector!
DamageType: Direct!
INS - PCR: 130.000
DOT - FUL: 26.000, DoT: 4030, Duration: 30.000
DOT - FUL: 24.960, DoT: 4037, Duration: 30.000

DAMAGEINFO - Time 6426.303 Damage (HOPPER): WeaponID 0, DmgID 1701, DmgFac 1.008, Energy 100.800, Effect 0.000, Height 0.000
DamageCause: No weapon!
DamageType: Over Time!
INS - FIR: 100.800

DAMAGEINFO - Time 6426.387 Damage (Walkman): WeaponID 620, DmgID 2250, DmgFac -24.950, Energy -2495.000, Effect 0.000, Height 21.000
DamageCause: Injector!
DamageType: Direct!
INS - FUL: -2495.000

And fall on Veedena:

DAMAGEINFO - Time 6633.367 Damage (Walkman): WeaponID 0, DmgID 2000, DmgFac 39.226, Energy 3922.644, Effect 0.000, Height 0.000
DamageCause: No weapon!
DamageType: Collision!
INS - FUL: 3922.644
DAMAGEINFO - Log object successfully destroyed!

Thread: [R#186] T#186-T#197 Patch Discussion

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