Change red SL belt drops

**Fremen** · 01-06-13, 06:13

Originally Posted by William Antrim

I could handle losing 1 or 2 items as a "criminal" with bad SL

This is a good thing.

Well guess what, if I lose only 1 or 2 items with bad SL well then let's get it clear, I'm gonna play -99 SL on every character, and kill absolutely everyone I see, from the ennemies to the allies lvl 10 I see in the sewer farming rats, and while I'm at it, I'll chain kill them until they don't xp anymore in the area.

Don't you see you need strong penalties otherwise it's gonna be mortal online, killing spree everywhere.

You guys gotta see a little further and think about the consequences.

**eNTi** · 01-06-13, 09:36

Originally Posted by Dropout

Way to show self control..
If I had replied to that, I would have gotten myself banned

OT: I do agree, dropping 5+ items on death is just absolutely stupid.. No one is able to afford that kind of lost. And I do think that Red SL, should be a possible way to play (not easy ofc, but possible..)..

so... what would you fancy easy enough for your liking? -sl play is possible due to the sandbox nature of the game, but highly discouraged.

i think perma death would be a valid option, imho. next disables your gr, after you reach around -90sl or so. you are no good to society, why would they keep you alive?

**William Antrim** · 01-06-13, 11:06

Originally Posted by Fremen

You guys gotta see a little further and think about the consequences.

You are entitled to your opinion, I am entitled to mine. Just because we disagree does not mean either of us are wrong. Believe me I look at the consequences of everything I post in this forum. I look at how it affects, me you and everyone in the game world. I have no real class bias and I do not think that skill should be a replacement for bad game mechanics.

If you did evolve into a sociopathic killer as you have stated then I can bet you a pound to a pinch of shit that someone else would take up the mantle of killing you everywhere you went. I know I would. I would make that my duty to kill people doing that and take all of their shit all of the time. After a while that behaviour would regulate itself and if it didnt, well you could call me and my clan.

You cannot wildly speculate about something you have no hard evidence on and then say an idea is bad because of it. You CAN however say yes this MIGHT happen and then I would probably be inclined to agree with you but saying ohmygod no you cant do this because this WILL happen will just make me tune out.

You should probably think about some of the consequences of the changes you proposed in your other thread that we have discussed recently. It seems sharply ironic that you preach that here whilst proposing wholesale changes to a weapon system so as to completely remove its viability from pvp in another thread.

**jonson** · 01-06-13, 12:11

Originally Posted by eNTi

so... what would you fancy easy enough for your liking? -sl play is possible due to the sandbox nature of the game, but highly discouraged.

i think perma death would be a valid option, imho. next disables your gr, after you reach around -90sl or so. you are no good to society, why would they keep you alive?

><((((�>

**Castr0** · 01-06-13, 13:34

My proposal is clearly not to make it easy to be -99. Just playable.
Loosing 1-2 items is a strong penalty when :
- you are tracked
- you can't GR out / use GR
- you are weakier (you have cheaper equipment and stuff since you don't want to loose it

It seems like people think that if you are -99 SL you get some super powers ... No, you'll get tracked and kill by people/teams. You'll still loose 1v1 and find people stronger than you that will take your stuff once, twice or more times ...

I just want to see more red SL players (and not droners). This could bring action into the game.
I would have fun to track a red SL guy sometimes, at the moment it nevers happens.

**Juppe** · 01-06-13, 13:48

Originally Posted by Castr0

My proposal is clearly not to make it easy to be -99. Just playable.
Loosing 1-2 items is a strong penalty when :
- you are tracked
- you can't GR out / use GR
- you are weakier (you have cheaper equipment and stuff since you don't want to loose it

It seems like people think that if you are -99 SL you get some super powers ... No, you'll get tracked and kill by people/teams. You'll still loose 1v1 and find people stronger than you that will take your stuff once, twice or more times ...

I just want to see more red SL players (and not droners). This could bring action into the game.
I would have fun to track a red SL guy sometimes, at the moment it nevers happens.

I think you are right.. 1-2 times automaticly lost is harsh enough.. if its 10 items nobody plays with that negative sl.. or if they do they just log in quickly go for few ganks and logout. So there is not actually much chance to hunt em.

**Fremen** · 01-06-13, 14:29

Do you realise you are already dropping one item at high SL ?
So you want to drop also one item at low SL ? What a harsh penalty indeed LOL !

I'll just get 10 random built spells in my inventory and this will drastically lower my chances to drop a weapon even as a criminal.

When dealing with this kind of PvP mechanics you have two ways of seeing this:
-Either you have no gear drop like in 99% of MMOs and you can freely kill people around without penalties. And the game turn out to be very boring.
-Either you have gear drop, and to avoid a massive mayem, you get some kind of karma mechanic to ensure people respect each other or at least their own side (aka allied faction) or don't greykill.

Here the red massive loot drop is a good way to make sure criminals are being punished for their actions.
After all, why are they red ? Why are they criminal ? Because they killed massively FRIENDLIES and NOOBS inside aggressors sewers, MB, and regant bossroom. Let's get it straight, if you kill only ennemies or neutral, you won't be RED -99SL.

@William, it is already regulating itself, when you see a red, you track him down because you want his loot, this is a strong motivation to go and get him.
Now if everyone drop the same amount of gear, no matter what is the SL, then why not kill everything ? It will only go down to the player morality. And trust me on this, it will become mayem in a few days.
Why am I so sure ? -Just play anygame with no penalties on PK...

PS: GR locked at plaza/via/app is not a strong penalty, the only real penalty is the gear drop.

**Maine** · 01-06-13, 15:57

Originally Posted by Strife

This is, and was never some linear game where the developers tell you specifically how to play.

Red SL is a playstyle and always has been. The only difference from before and now is the developers making harsher and harsher penalties to it.

This is Cyberpunk, nothing about it says fluffy bunny MMO.

It just sounds like they are creating penalties against meaningless PvP rather than other failed sandboxes with supposed social interaction like, heh, Unholy Wars.

**Juppe** · 01-06-13, 17:05

Fremen please less qq. I have high SL and never lost a single item because the belt is so hard to hack. BAD sl you dont need to hack so you automaticly lose several items..that is harsh. Players who play bad sl are usually good pvp players. don't think they need to kill lowbies. I hear this qq alot in the forums..never seen it happen in game. And even if you do get killed, so what? They have to lose all their shit??! Haha.. This sl rule thing only keeps the pk ppl not wantin to go red..just stay yellow.

**Deus Ex Machina** · 01-06-13, 17:15

Originally Posted by Maine

It just sounds like they are creating penalties against meaningless PvP rather than other failed sandboxes with supposed social interaction like, heh, Unholy Wars.

Meaningless PvP

I must remember that phrase, I like it. And the social interaction really is the key. A new runner has to see that there are other people out there, that are on HIS side. If there is a problem there has to be at least an idea where one can go for help. And the one working poutside the system should be a threat, be regarded as dangerous, but not be the norm.
I remember playing games where it was full PvP, and the ones I thought were on my side tried to guide me in being able to penaltyless kill me. Others were not around. Nowhere to be seen. Didn't last long in that game, although I thought I would really really like it.
Then I remember the Old UO Times, while I never could dive into that as deep as I wanted too, there was one important thing: The reds were out there. But they would not come in. Someone attacked you in the city, you cried for help and the enemy was done for. You stole from a dead one and you were not red but free game. It worked. The real criminals were kept out of the most parts, the were scattered around the countryside (as I found out after I lost my way and ran around for hours, thrice running past ones of them).
And in that game everyone lost the same amount. Everything carried. So I don't think it would be so bad to lower the belt penalties, as long as other penalties are in place instead. Which they are now. Someone who can be tracked down all the time, cannot just hide to get "better" again, cannot use many of the lovely tech we use all the time, thats the thing that should be discouraging.
The prey can now be hunted and must be out in the open. So the in the current system the belt penalties are harsher than before. I just rarely see reds, and I am sure there are also others out there that would enjoy the hunt. But as long as the risk of the prey is too high...

P.S. I think there should be something made that droners risk something too, at the moment they are a bit besides the penalty system.

**Fremen** · 02-06-13, 01:04

Originally Posted by Juppe

Fremen please less qq. I have high SL and never lost a single item because the belt is so hard to hack. BAD sl you dont need to hack so you automaticly lose several items..that is harsh. Players who play bad sl are usually good pvp players. don't think they need to kill lowbies. I hear this qq alot in the forums..never seen it happen in game. And even if you do get killed, so what? They have to lose all their shit??! Haha.. This sl rule thing only keeps the pk ppl not wantin to go red..just stay yellow.

LoL Juppe, less qq about what ?
I'm not the one QQing for the reducing the penalties on Red

>

Players who have -99 are good players ? lal >

They can be good or not, that has nothing to do with it.

You lose SL because of your actions towards the rules of engagement of your sectors.
-Killing a friendly in a dungeon (sewer/aggie/regant/etc) = loss of SL
-for killings friendlies anywhere except Outpost areas.
If you kill ennemy runners and sometimes neutrals, you won't lose SL (or not much) and certainly won't reach -99SL.

It's funny how 75% of the players on the forum treat other of carebear when it's about PvP, yet you are QQing about the gear drop of -99 lol !
That is carebearing at its finest.

**Kane Gregory** · 02-06-13, 13:18

Originally Posted by Fremen

It's funny how 75% of the players on the forum treat other of carebear when it's about PvP, yet you are QQing about the gear drop of -99 lol !
That is carebearing at its finest.

This!

**eNTi** · 02-06-13, 14:55

red sl doesn't mean you are a criminal. most players are actually criminials in this game. -sl are megalomaniac psycho killers.

**Juppe** · 02-06-13, 20:09

Fremen, cut the bullshit. You were qqing about mad pk blaa blaablaa. This was thread made for a suggest to reduce the amount of items dropped. It is not qqing.
I have played games with full loot.. Its ok and makes pvp thrilling. but in this game for criminals its almost like that and for rhe goody good guys no risk at all..doesnt make any sense to me.
So..we need all kind of runners in this game.
with the Current rules these mad pk dont go red SL. Because they cant use gr and lose alot of items.

**fail** · 06-06-13, 16:36

as far as i know you dont drop any important items, because you have a safe slot and your imps do not drop. what you drop is your trash from inventory and your armor. If you have some rares in your other qbelt slots with -sl then you do it on your own risk. So in general this is good like it is , if i have an allly and +sl i can "trust" him. People who do not respect allies have -sl and you know whats going on. So if you want to play agressive then accept the consequenses. BUT there must be a somekind of compensation to be a "bad" guy. something like an power armor for "-SL as restriction", i think there are lot of ideas. last thing if -sl dont hurt to ppl, there will be a massacre in level spots like regants.

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