Impact of XP Advantage to Non LEs for LE Wearers

**William Antrim** · 08-02-13, 18:15

Originally Posted by Strife

Friend WoC'd non LE PE. Pretty sure it nearly resulted in IRL suicide.

I know. There is only him and one another who have done it that I have seen. I am waiting for char transfer ideally before I bring mine.

**Model192** · 08-02-13, 18:16

If I recall correctly....the purpose of the LE was for people to get a handle on the game, make friends, and then take it out. It was used mainly as a tutorial and comfort device.

Cyberpunk, people.

**See no Evil** · 08-02-13, 18:31

I do agree with Deus ex Machina.
LE should have a penalty.

I have always leveled my character keeping LE in to remove it in the end. This is not right, if player want to go PvP in the end, they should start from beginning in my opinion.

**Torg** · 08-02-13, 20:28

this discussion thread is flawed from the beginning, as its confusing opinions with arguments. you cant start with a "i want things to change like this, now give me arguments against it". to get a vaild discussion - and i'm just assuming thats what you wanted - we'd need to name the problem, and look for possible solutions.

what is your problem, deus? why exactly do you want to encourage people removing the LE? dont you think this is a decision everyone has to do by themselves? i suppose you'd like to make everyone part of PvP, so we'd have more combat. but cant you imagine some people just dont want to take part in fights, for whatever reasons? do you want to force anyone, and risk driving them away from NC? what measures can you think of to let people play free of unconsented combat? do you care at all? please make your statement, so we can have a real discussion instead of just sharing opinions.

of course we can keep sharing simple opinions as long as we'd ever want to. but this wont benefit further development of this game. so?

**Kame** · 08-02-13, 21:21

Adding incentives to LE removal still leaves te player with 100% choice as to when or if its removed.

Remember the time you HAD to get a player kill to finnish the faction epic missions ? That forced players to remove LE, yet very few people complained about this 8years ago.

Im all for adding incentives since that does not force a player to do anything.

The points Torg so vehemently produces are utter bullshit to me.

**DR REED** · 08-02-13, 22:02

Seems that you make a "retro engineering" version of the LE thread at brainport here, Deus^^

Same theme, but approach from the rear ?

1. Non-LE players prefer mostly pvp, belt hacking, loving clan memberships and op fights, sometimes ganking.
They have the advantage for beeing without LE that they can do all this.

2. LE Players (the ones which leave LE mounted all days) prefer a non-pvp-playstyle. Most this player collects and trades, makes (non fighting-)roleplay and plays this MMO even not beeing in a clan, what not automatical means that he is a LONE WOLF. They can play that way.
This player HAS disadvantages: no belt hack, no clan, no 4th imp slot.

Why we must change this ?

Because some people are missing targets ?

This rule simple is valid: a advantage for one party is automatically a disadvantage for the other one.

Some people obviously can not accept this game with a LE option. The reasons are obvious.

Reed

PS.. don't be mistaken: 7 of Reed's 8 chars on Mars are without LE

**Deus Ex Machina** · 08-02-13, 23:57

Originally Posted by Torg

what is your problem, deus? why exactly do you want to encourage people removing the LE? dont you think this is a decision everyone has to do by themselves? i suppose you'd like to make everyone part of PvP, so we'd have more combat. but cant you imagine some people just dont want to take part in fights, for whatever reasons? do you want to force anyone, and risk driving them away from NC?

Since it seems impossible to keep the opinions out of that thread, as well as the angry comments:

1) My problem is that people can't keep the discussion and opinions to another thread. I have stated myself and what I want clearly in several other threads. To anyone who really reads my posts it should be clear that I don't want to force anyone to take their LE out, and I have stated that explictly in one actual thread at least, and it should be clear from some of the others too.

2) In spite of wanting something specific though, I consider myself a person whose opinion can be swayed by well thought through arguments, and I also like to have a chance to view problems from the side I am not on, so thats why, before I post angrily that i want something this or other, I try to consider if there is merit to the view of the other side, that might be hidden by angry protesters, that don't discuss but only state what they want.

3) I opened that thread to gather the arguments how such a change might influence those that do not even want to take the LE at all. I have stated that very explicit. I wanted to find out if there are arguments I have overlooked, or a side of the problem I haven't thought of or heard of at all. In the end to find out for me if there is a problem between those that take LE out sooner and those that take it out later, or if the third group, those that don't take it out at all, are also influenced in a way that matters. Nothing more, nothing less.

4) As for your question why, well as i already stated: I won't discuss it in this thread, since thats not its purpose, although its offrail. It can be read in one of the other threads about that topic, or you can send me a PM, i will gladly elaborate.

P.S. Once again, for the almighty record: I do not want LE removed, nor anyone to be forced to remove it, nor do I want more targets, there are enough of them already if I want.
Seems I have to state that everywhere explicitly, otherwise every mention of that chip is considered a step of me of a forumwide crusade to exterminate every trace of LE in the known multiverse. *shakes head sadly*

**Model192** · 09-02-13, 01:13

The problem with the le is simply this: they are removed from the cyberpunk themed world. No worries in pp/oz. Runner interaction is the driving force in cyberpunk. These characters have reduced risk for the same rewards. If LE chars want to be safe then they need to do what corpies do: stick to protected corporate sectors. Make vr/plaza safe again, encourage le removal, and/or limit areas where players are actually safe from runners.

**Doc Holliday** · 09-02-13, 04:42

Originally Posted by Deus Ex Machina

Since it seems impossible to keep the opinions out of that thread, as well as the angry comments:

1) My problem is that people can't keep the discussion and opinions to another thread. I have stated myself and what I want clearly in several other threads. To anyone who really reads my posts it should be clear that I don't want to force anyone to take their LE out, and I have stated that explictly in one actual thread at least, and it should be clear from some of the others too.

2) In spite of wanting something specific though, I consider myself a person whose opinion can be swayed by well thought through arguments, and I also like to have a chance to view problems from the side I am not on, so thats why, before I post angrily that i want something this or other, I try to consider if there is merit to the view of the other side, that might be hidden by angry protesters, that don't discuss but only state what they want.

3) I opened that thread to gather the arguments how such a change might influence those that do not even want to take the LE at all. I have stated that very explicit. I wanted to find out if there are arguments I have overlooked, or a side of the problem I haven't thought of or heard of at all. In the end to find out for me if there is a problem between those that take LE out sooner and those that take it out later, or if the third group, those that don't take it out at all, are also influenced in a way that matters. Nothing more, nothing less.

4) As for your question why, well as i already stated: I won't discuss it in this thread, since thats not its purpose, although its offrail. It can be read in one of the other threads about that topic, or you can send me a PM, i will gladly elaborate.

P.S. Once again, for the almighty record: I do not want LE removed, nor anyone to be forced to remove it, nor do I want more targets, there are enough of them already if I want.
Seems I have to state that everywhere explicitly, otherwise every mention of that chip is considered a step of me of a forumwide crusade to exterminate every trace of LE in the known multiverse. *shakes head sadly*

*Big round of applause*

I couldnt agree more.

Its not about forcing the LE out the game its about encouraging people to make a choice without them being punished and showing them what they are missing.

Ultimately its them who have the choice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrruSboN1bQ <--- syndicate wars intro. Watch when the guys chip malfunctions. That to me is the best way i can explain having the LE in to not having it in. Its a whole different ball game.

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