[FIXED][#174] Rarepart drop algorithm appears to be skewed (not random)

[Apocalypsox]

warbot tech rate is a joke. 20 warbots for 2 techs is a waste of time, especially considering their rank.

[RogerRamjet]

since we got moderately populated servers, competition for hunting/farming grounds is more intense, right? so the game is more challenging than before, when you had all the best spots for yourself. instead of taking up the challenge, youre asking for measures to soften the competition? i'm not impressed.

I stilll have the zone I use to myself nearly every day, but going to the popular zones, after having LEd Rhinoers stealing your loot by parking on top of everything you kill, it gets old fast.

But the WB drop rate should be addressed, and firemobs are the easiest option for the solo runner. There are plenty of nearly un-used canyon sectors.

[Torg]

The game NEEDS to be about achieving PVP as soon as possible. Neocron is NOT built on the PvE content. Never has been, never will be.

i strongly disagree. to me and a lot of other people this game is about playing this game. not just some single aspect of it.

[William Antrim]

i strongly disagree. to me and a lot of other people this game is about playing this game. not just some single aspect of it.

if it was just about the pve it wouldve died years ago. The thing that keeps it going is the pvp.

[Jameson Clarke]

opinions vs opinions vs opinions

[Torg]

opinions vs opinions vs opinions

anyone got solid data we could build a scientific theory on? no? ok, so we're left with opinions.

[Apocalypsox]

also I've never PVP'd in this game competitively. I will fucking stealth around and snipe your ass until you fuck off, farm techs, build shit, and thoroughly enjoy my time.

I suck at PVP and probably always will, and its ten times an annoyance than a pleasure.

[Doc Holliday]

Right so i got to page 2 and the assholes diverted the topic waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off and start talking about stuff vaguely related to the OP.

If you want some facts go test some stuff. First things first. No ones talking about warbot drop rates but as its mentioned go try and farm 40 techs on a warbot. Yeah....... Good luck with that.

Now go and farm 40 techs on firemobs and see how they stack up. Then go and farm them from elsewhere. Look for reccurring themes when you start seeing multiple techs stacking multiple times. When you ress them im sure you will see similar parts recurring and that there are certain parts of certain guns that will always drop.

Example. in my inventory on titan now i have 7 SS comps. 2 SS techs. 4 SS Hulls and 2 SS cores. Add a plus one to each of those numbers as i got a frame yesterday which finished it off.

Now try and buy an ATP of CS currently. Or a Rav Tech/Atp. Or a Healing Light Comp. Still to this day i havent seen parts for certain weapons come out in all the techs i have ressed for clan mates. Dissie? 1 part 2x. the ATP.

We have tried switching up the farming spot and even the mob but it still seems like something is out of kink here just as the OP said so. I dont remember it being this weird in all my NC time but it truthfully is.

The bottom line is this. The DROP TYPES (not drop rates) seem to be strange. Almost as if Certain mobs ONLY contain certain parts that will drop and even then DONT have an even chance of dropping compared to others.

If anyone wants to harvest some data and shit from this you need only one source to see theres an issue. NC trade channel. Watch the rare sellers. See how many of em are looking for certain parts for certain guns. then check for the next person whos trading. you can be fairly sure that there will be the reccurring theme of the same part(s) missing.

Torg. Grow a brain. Try and discuss things intelligently and with thought and insight if you dont wanna get bitchslapped on the opening page. I read some of the shit you come out with and its like sometimes you want to deliberately sabotage this game its so small minded.

apoc try and keep the topic in mind thats here for discussion too. no one cares about your pvp skills or lack thereof. This i think is an important topic for discussion

[Torg]

so, doc, what youre basically saying is tech part drop is *not* random but has some parts in favour, and others thoroughly missing. well, i believe this is not the case. random distribution will of course lead to an even number on all parts ingame, given our test sample is large enough. how many identified parts do you store an titan? i guess the pool has to be really big until we get the impression of even distribution. and if tech part type distribution really was off the line that much, everybody would miss the same parts, so we'd have only a few ravagers, cursed souls etc on the server, compared to, lets say libras or judges. in fact ravas and cs's are among the most sought after items on titan, so the impression of scarceness may be plainly subjective.
do you really think the original devs of neocron sat down to put up tech part loot tables manually? i believe NC is set up like any other computer program. so in my view this discussion is just a leisure time activity and will not go anywhere.
just one more thing, doc: may i ask you to accept there are different opinions on most subjects, and opinions different from your own are not automatically shit, as well as people telling those different opinions? unless you want to be regarded and treated as not yet grown up, that is.

[Dribble Joy]

Some parts are more common than others, it has been like this since the beginning. All it does it fill the server with excess parts that never get used, clogging the database.

So yes, the chance of finding a rav hull should be the same as a rav atp.

[Ivan Eres]

Some parts are more common than others, it has been like this since the beginning. All it does it fill the server with excess parts that never get used, clogging the database.

So yes, the chance of finding a rav hull should be the same as a rav atp.

That's right.

Even if it was not intented by the developers this could easily be caused by the randomizer code itself.

Randomizing results is a science for itself ....

Regards

[Brammers]

anyone got solid data we could build a scientific theory on? no? ok, so we're left with opinions.

Yes However I won't call it solid data as it's accuracy is down to the players. Also not every rares trader uses the THN rares DB.

Raw data totals and pivots for Terra and Titan can be found at:-

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...lE&output=html

[CMaster]

Yes However I won't call it solid data as it's accuracy is down to the players. Also not every rares trader uses the THN rares DB.

Raw data totals and pivots for Terra and Titan can be found at:-

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...lE&output=html

Titan data is rather too small a sample still to come to any conclusion on.
Terra data doesn't seem to suggest anything is especially amiss at a quick glance. Especially once you allow for some items being new to the pool (tier 4 chips, various new for 2.2 weapons), and the fact that shitty weapons nobody bothers trading parts for, so they pile up more.

Edit: there are a few oddly rare parts on the Terra data. CCP Tech, Adorption and Thunderstorm Core all seem to only have about half as many parts listed as is typical for that weapon.

Edit again: Of course, the thing about Terra is that it's been through lots of patches, so lots of chances for something to have changed.

This is the awful thing about rare, randomized stuff. It's really, really hard to figure out if it is working as intended. (Hence why I suggested some more common dropping part that can be exchanged for MC5s, rather than some mega-rare MC5 drop chance in that other thread)

[Torg]

Yes Raw data totals and pivots for Terra and Titan can be found at:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...lE&output=html

brilliant. i think this is as close to "valid data" as we can get. we can clearly see tech drop is not spread evenly. to my guess this is because its randomized. the initial question (thank you, William) here was: can we get a more equal, less random distribution? i just doubt this is either viable or desirable. apart from that: we dont have statistics on how many rare items have been built yet on titan. so again i doubt a cs is harder to get than a healing light or winding argument. of course: there seems to be a pattern, concerning missing ATPs for some spells and guns, but i wouldnt call this a proof.

[Brammers]

...there seems to be a pattern, concerning missing ATPs for some spells and guns, but i wouldnt call this a proof.

Not all weapons need an ATP part. So if the cell for ATP is blank, it means the part isn't required. Have a look at http://rares.techhaven.org/list.php

I have to agree with Cmaster's comment that the Titan data is too small a sample to draw any conclusions. However I'll leave the conclusions to the people around here who do know how to analyse data.