OP PVP as seen by a noob

[DIABLO666]

he never complaint about losing what are you guys talking about?

yeah the clipping is pathetic and for a new guy its certainly disturbing. Ppl adopted this "strategy" long ago and now it's part of the OPfight game.

And the invincible ppu... hard to kill is ok but sometimes it's annoying a ppu can stand a 5 men beating

the problem really comes into play when you have an invincible ppu clipping through people, killing a normal person is hard when they clip like crazy, a ppu well that just takes it up to the realms of invincible. Again this is hard to balance cos in no way am I saying ppus should be easy to kill, but the current level of hard to kill when combined with clipping can make a competent ppus almost impossible for a full OP team to kill unless you literally post a anti buffing ppu at spots around the OP so you will have somebody with a lock on for the anti buff 100% of the time and pistol spys / apus chasing them who can keep up while shooting (a tank wont do cos they just can't keep up with a clipping ppu so wont be hitting enough).

Hopefully the big balance thats coming will sort these issues a bit, I personally don't have a clue how they will do it but I hope they think up something. They seem to have done well so far lets hope they keep it up and surprise us with some genius method =)

[Dropout]

i just had the "meh feeling" of this wasn't really fun or engaging either way.

Maybe NC just isnt for you...



EDIT:

the problem really comes into play when you have an invincible ppu clipping through people, killing a normal person is hard when they clip like crazy, a ppu well that just takes it up to the realms of invincible. Again this is hard to balance cos in no way am I saying ppus should be easy to kill, but the current level of hard to kill when combined with clipping can make a competent ppus almost impossible for a full OP team to kill unless you literally post a anti buffing ppu at spots around the OP so you will have somebody with a lock on for the anti buff 100% of the time and pistol spys / apus chasing them who can keep up while shooting (a tank wont do cos they just can't keep up with a clipping ppu so wont be hitting enough).

Dude.. You clearly do not know anything about NC.. Why bother whining?
Tanks (With Dev) is one of the best classes to kills a PPU with.
And honestly, PPU's Arent that hard to kill.. You just need to Work together to do it..

[William Antrim]

Enti are engierelite?

[Juppe]

Enti are engierelite?

i think not... engierelite is 14 year old. eNti uses words a 14 year old couldnt use.

[\\Fényx//]

Theres been over a decade of threads like this.

Neocron's a bit love/hate. Thats why there are people that stick around for a couple of weeks, and others that are still here years later... You either love it or hate it.

The problem for me is the whole "evo 2.2" debacle where everything got fucked around with, it was not the same game after that, but thankfully thats been realised and steps are starting to be made to fix that.

Thinking back over the years having played neocron, it is one of the few games that has solid memories tied with it, and they are nearly all tied to op fights, because that is where the adrenaline rushes came from, holding gravis uplink on my own for half a hour from the FA faction, not a clan, but a faction. while at the same time phonin clannies to get their ass online and help lol. The shit storm of arguments and accusations after they couldnt take down a self buffed melee tank, rofls. Raiding TH with NDA in the early days, then with cannings in the AYB days... memories will probably stick with me for life because of the kick they gave. However, thats probably only due to the fact we used to win most the time, not all the time, theres a few defeats that will never be forgotten too. but the end game in neocron has never really been aimed at duels, or pepper park/p2 border fighting etc, its always been about the op wars.
Even back then, the majority of clans used to try and stack out ever fighter with a pocket PPU, however believe me, thats not required, get a small team of bloody good players together, and you can still take them down. Most the big name clans over time have been like that, it was never so much about who had more people, think back over time, the major clans always had an elite core of players where the class they were on never really mattered, and also the team balance never mattered too much either. We went to op fights sometimes with only 1 or 2 PPU's, in like a 15 man team, fighting a team thats like half fighter, half ppu. by your logic, we should have been raped, but it doesent work out like that.

At the end of the day, its about the players around you that make the experience. Its a war game, I always enjoyed the fights against opponents i actually fuckin hated with a vengance, than against the ones that are nice. That made victory sweeter, taking down Lore for example, because of the whole history I had with TG, there was alot of venom and vitriol but thats what makes a great opponent. Also, the clans that had good comradeship were always the best to be in, not the ones where you think "this group will help me win", its the groups where you want your friends to experience winning with too, makes you all fight that bit more because theres more pride in it together.

[William Antrim]

Agree with fenyx totally here tbh.

[DIABLO666]

Maybe NC just isnt for you...



EDIT:

Dude.. You clearly do not know anything about NC.. Why bother whining?
Tanks (With Dev) is one of the best classes to kills a PPU with.
And honestly, PPU's Arent that hard to kill.. You just need to Work together to do it..

You seem to have never been at a OP fight, if people are clipping its pretty hard to get any hits on them even if you are all working together, as for a dev tank to do the job... you do realise having a gun out slows you down right? as such chasing a ppu will never work unless they are slow as holy hell as you can't keep up, and thats if we ignore having to try and get a lock on somebody whos clipping non stop.

[Bozz-Von Mel]

I have not been involved in an OP fight in quite some time, but that is generally the way I remember it. Then again I am kind of slow and everything seems to be moving around me like lightning, especially when I have been drinking. Which is all the time.

[J@ck on Cr@ck]

You seem to have never been at a OP fight, if people are clipping its pretty hard to get any hits on them even if you are all working together, as for a dev tank to do the job... you do realise having a gun out slows you down right? as such chasing a ppu will never work unless they are slow as holy hell as you can't keep up, and thats if we ignore having to try and get a lock on somebody whos clipping non stop.

Ever thought about crippling peoples legs so they are easier to kill?
Dev is handy against rezzing PPUs ...

[DIABLO666]

Yes I thought of that a loooong time ago like everybody else sadly like everybody else I also noticed that with a ppus shields and heals its nigh on impossible to do that unless you can focus everybodys fire on their legs which when they are clipping is mighty hard to do. and yes the dev is handy against rezzing ppus killed a few with it =).

Again people seem to be mis-interpreting what I'm saying, I'm not saying ppu is OP I'm saying in a OP fight when they clip around it makes them even harder to take down and its pretty hard to take down a ppu as it is now, especially when you consider they have the UG for if things start to look really bad. Basically clipping needs fixing somehow so people don't just run around things, it was the old fave thing of apus to do now ppus have moved onto doing it mostly but its something everybody can take advantage of and its just a pain really.

[Dropout]

You seem to have never been at a OP fight, if people are clipping its pretty hard to get any hits on them even if you are all working together, as for a dev tank to do the job... you do realise having a gun out slows you down right? as such chasing a ppu will never work unless they are slow as holy hell as you can't keep up, and thats if we ignore having to try and get a lock on somebody whos clipping non stop.

Yeah, I've never been at an opfight.. Nor have I been in some of the best opfighting Clans durring NC2..

After the speed-with-weapon-out boost, that tanks got (changed from -20% to -10%), I rarely have a problem keeping up with people on my tank, with weapon out.
I did like it better pre-speed nerf, where I would outrun everyone who wasent a tank, with my Dev out....

I do agree that there is some problems with clipping, and some PPU's can be extremely hard to hit.
And structures that isnt solid, needs to be fucking solid or removed (Yeah Im looking at you, hackterms)!

[Doc Holliday]

So all this talk of clipping is in fact people using the scenery to break lock. Except for the hack terms which you can still track people through if you follow them.

Here is a hint. Spread out. Don't over pursue and make them come and fight you in the open. It helps a lot. And use aoe if the "clipping" is so bad.

Or cry nerf in the brainport. Cause that's what its there for right

[Strife]

There's a reason why the 'cheaters' don't get banned, because they're not.

[Doc Holliday]

just to give another example to this argument. I fought an apu in plaza 2 before the changes we now see.

He continually ran between the right hand corner of the zone as u zone in to p2 up to the first corner on the right as you go up in to rontrade walk.

Back and forth like he was doing shuttle runs. He clearly knew that in those few steps he had the advantage as every time my reticle was closed he was round the corner and i lost the lock. He rained apocs on my head till i figured i had had enough and went in to the middle of plaza 2 up where the gr used to be between the shops.

Point being. Make the enemy fight on terms favourable to you not on terms favourable to him.

second point. Stop with the crying about cheaters. People cheated in the past and have been banned. zoltan and co cleared out a lot of the shit if not all of it. thankfully. just because someone beats you doesnt mean they cheat. it means you need to get better.

if you have someone running for the hackterm or inside of the building containing it or what ever why not coordinate better as a team and position people to pick them up as they run rather than one person saying all shoot this dude and all of the op fight team running around and chasing like one giant noob conga.

Coordination and tactics are excellent weapons in any generals arsenal. keep in mind some people have played this game for a lot longer continually than you and me and will know plenty of tricks to win fights. Adapt and learn. watch what they do and learn to counteract.

dont just squeal hackusations or what ever and complain about this gun or that gun. its way more fun to practice and get better with the dev or what ever than to use a keyboard as your weapon of choice and rage hard on the forum.

[DIABLO666]

Yeah, I've never been at an opfight.. Nor have I been in some of the best opfighting Clans durring NC2..

After the speed-with-weapon-out boost, that tanks got (changed from -20% to -10%), I rarely have a problem keeping up with people on my tank, with weapon out.
I did like it better pre-speed nerf, where I would outrun everyone who wasent a tank, with my Dev out....

I do agree that there is some problems with clipping, and some PPU's can be extremely hard to hit.
And structures that isnt solid, needs to be fucking solid or removed (Yeah Im looking at you, hackterms)!

Indeed that is the main issue (which is what I was saying), it might be tough to keep up with some of them but at least you can try to drug to do so or aim at the legs with a ranged gun till they slow, if they clip around stuff though with shields and a heal its hardly possible to even get them slowed without somebody whos got a good aim on a anti buff, even then a good ppu can survive till they come up again, and its even easier if they have the UG.

As for cheaters people might like to think they are all gone but some remain as I said I've seen some people warping around at fights and oddest one though I'm not sure if this was just a odd bug or a cheat, one of our guys was hacking a OP once and he just dropped dead, no revenge explosion no person in the room (cos we had a guard) he just dropped dead all of a sudden from full hp to nothing. Wont name the people but suffice to say it happens, they are just smart enough now to choose when they cheat instead of having them on all the time