Construction & Research under one subskill

[Vorak]

Just as Salvaging works under Recycling, Construction and Research would work under either Construction or a new subskill Engineering ENG. Currenlty, whenever Research is used the UI shows 'Construction' anyway. There are also very few imps for RES but many for CST. The current CST imlplants would apply to RES as well, leaving them as CST or the changing them to the new ENG.

[Torg]

i'm sorry, this doesnt appear to me like a good idea. asks to be filed under "please make the game easier". i dont think theres a problem with tradeskills (apart from not giving adequate exp). we probably will find other ways to boost player experience in nc.

[Sorin]

I'd love this and would be first in line to vote if developing NC took votes into account.

But, I also know it'll never happen. I think the idea is to have more dependency on other players and less complete-self-sufficiency (although most(?) people make multiple characters to cover their own tradeskill needs anyway, so...).

Better tradeskill xp wouldn't hurt either, although having experienced a classic grind-fest MMO for two years between my NC playing phases, it actually doesn't bother me too much at the moment. But that's not to say I want it to stay that way, however.

[Jodo]

No thanks.
At what point would we stop combining skills? The next person will want Rifle and Heavy combined because they're both long range. The person after that wants Pistols in the equation because they're still longer range compared to Melee and at that point someone suggests adding Melee cos all the others are in there anyway. Someone will always want it easier than it already is.

[Forget My Name]

Alright, let me see if I can give you my facts/opinions on this...

Just as Salvaging works under Recycling

Okay, stopped right there... At the moment, Salvaging is essentially worthless in Neocron. I have found time and time again it's just easier to sell my extra constructed guns to Yo's than it is to Salvage them for chemicals that end up taking space up in my GoGo.

Construction and Research would work under either Construction or a new subskill Engineering ENG.

You can already do both. Despite years long rumors based on outdated guides found here and techhaven that talk about Neocron 2.1, you do not need high skill numbers to do either.

Around 230 Construction caps all non rare items in the game. Slots are random, so having 400 Construction or 4 doesn't matter at all.

You can run TL 150 Research missions reliable with about 230 Research. Sure you fail, but you still make a profit.\

One runner can have both 230 Construction and 230 Research if you switch out two implants and use OP bonuses. Now, this is much easier if you are in a Clan and can get the, what, +44 bonus?

The only two reasons you would want more than 230 construction are if you want to construct Rares, and the higher your skill the better the stats, and for advertising. A constructor with 249 will always get more business than 230 because 99% of the masses just don't know there is 0 difference between the two when it comes to non rares.

So yes, you can already do both at the same time effectively.

There are also very few imps for RES but many for CST. The current CST imlplants would apply to RES as well, leaving them as CST or the changing them to the new ENG.

The reason why there are no Ress chips is because Researching does not require high numbers.

If you don't care about Researching tl150 missions, a Research skill of 190 is more than enough to any ress techs. You might break one in 100 E techs, but for me that is more than acceptable.

In conclusion; You can do both as long as you don't care about making Rare items, and Ress itself doesn't require Construction high numbers to do ress jobs as long as you don't care about macroing, er, I meant, making TL150 Research missions, hence the lack of research chips.

To be fair, the drawbacks include having to switch out two chips each time and using Outposts.

But it is obvious by the design of the chips that reaKKtor never intended a player to be able to Construct Rares and Ress TL 150 Missions together. It is one or the other by game design.

[Bruder Malmsdoo]

I didn't read all posts, but the existing system enforces the interaction between the players. That is a good thing and shouldn't be changed.

[Chuck Norris]

From what ive been told you dont want over 231 cst or it makes weapons worse actually like going to high in hacking... which is crazy, but true from what everyone tells me

[Sorin]

To be fair, the drawbacks include having to switch out two chips each time and using Outposts.

It's been a while since I've been in NC, let alone to the wide wild world of The Wastelands, but, are clans still completely locking the bonuses down to clan only (or faction only...I forget what the tightest resolution is), like they used to?

[phunqe]

Slots are random, so having 400 Construction or 4 doesn't matter at all.

Do you have an official source you can quote on that?
I know a lot of tests has been done, but there were also tests that were inconclusive.
An official word on this would clearly be appreciated

Reason why is I'd like to know is if the following is then outdated/false (in which case it should be removed):

Besides slotenhancers, which guarantee 1 to 3 slots, the only way to influence your chance to get slots is to get a construction skill as high as possible.

There are 2 variables in the formula that determines the amount of slots: the quality of the built item and a random number (0-199). Although quality of constructed items has a cap, the quality used by the formula is the theoretical quality, so having just enough CST to reach the build cap for the desired item is far from being optimal. In fact, if the quality is below a certain level, it is not possible to get 5 or even 4 slots. This quality is based on the TL of the constructed item DEX, INT and your CST skill.

So having a high build quality opens up the possibilities to get up to 5 slots. To get the slots, a random number is rolled. If that random number is above a certain number (derived from fixed factors and also the quality), you get 0 slots. For 1 slots, the random number has to be lower than the calculated number above. For 2 slots, it has to be below another number that's lower than that required for 1 slot. Same thing for 3, 4, 5 slots, the random number the game rolls has to be lower and lower. That's why builds with low quality can never get 5 slots, the required number would have to be negative (which it can't be).

As the quality factors into the formula determining the breakpoints for x slots, a high quality means a bigger range of random numbers will be able to get you slots. In other words, it increases your chances to get slots.

Rare weapons are a special case though. In addition to the formula described above, there is another roll for either 0, 1 or 2 additional slots (33.33% chance to get either). That's why rare weapons generally have more slots than non-rares.

[Sorin]

Do you have an official source you can quote on that?
I know a lot of tests has been done, but there were also tests that were inconclusive.
An official word on this would clearly be appreciated

The information is quoted here in the first post of the thread and is from Thanatos, who at the time worked for KK. I remember reading the post way back in the day, but I've scoured the forums via the forum search and google itself with a site search, and for some reason I can't find his actual post. The percentage-and-weight-of-skills breakdown was also official KK info, because they wrote a big post back in the day spelling out the exact weights for how skills affect almost everything.

[Biglines]

construction changed in 2.2, and the new calculations were that yes slots are random, but higher construct makes them weighted more towards a higher chance. There's a reason every single successful constructor has capped construction skill (250+). my constructor on terra was high as it could be, and i always used factory bonusses as well. I have never constructed a rare that was less than 116 in every single stat, while 90% of the time they are almost all either 118 or 120.

[William Antrim]

construction changed in 2.2, and the new calculations were that yes slots are random, but higher construct makes them weighted more towards a higher chance. There's a reason every single successful constructor has capped construction skill (250+). my constructor on terra was high as it could be, and i always used factory bonusses as well. I have never constructed a rare that was less than 116 in every single stat, while 90% of the time they are almost all either 118 or 120.

Capped int/99 dex on my cster on terra and all points in cst and i got exactly the same thing.

Im inclined to believe that pure cst is better for rares.

[Chuck Norris]

staying under 231 almost always gave me at least three stats at artifact; slots are random but I completely believe they are influenced by total str skill....

Ive seen the most five sloters come from tank cst's with total shit stats

[Forget My Name]

I didn't want this thread to off topic about slots, etc... Sorry if I did that.

I feel Construction and Researching being separate is what makes Neocron Crafting what it is. Changing that essentially changes the heart of Neocron, as everything, pve and pvp, relies on both researching and constructing.