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Here are new statements from Kirk lenke regarding NC3 (in german). But what about NC2CE?
"dears, it will probably remain a dream. We had financing on paper, but, however, investors turned out to be a joke.
All work on the prototype, with already functioning and Unreal Mission System Tech was stopped and I doubt that it can start again, because there's just no money." (my translation)
I cant see FB at work.
Can you transcribe or just cut and paste it? Its good that you have posted it but it is pretty monumental for the community and I can see this thread either getting a load of "well thats that then" style replies or fanboi explosions.
Investors turning out to be a joke worries me the most tbh. I hope kirk has heard of crowdfunding but I really do worry if its not him thats the joke.
raw copypaste.Quote:
Originally Posted by facebook
Dang I can't wait for a translate of that !
If investors aren't signing in then you need to find others.
Investors aren't the issue. It must be Kirk's passion is no more for NC :-/
whats about kickstarter?
Attachment 12568Quote:
Originally Posted by Fremen
google translate is terrible sometimesQuote:
Originally Posted by hudsonbeck
This is not good but can't say I'm shocked. Kirk has been quiet for a while.
As for crowd funding I think that comes with its own pitfalls. Not every game that gets backed on kickstarter gets made or gets made to the standard promised. Let's be honest and look at some harsh truths, the population that play is low how many serious backers can we get? A new MMO costs millions and who here can tell me they have that stashed down their couch?
Is it any wonder that investors have bailed or have no interest?
You are essentially saying " Hey back this game which never made it as a huge commercial success before, that has a diminishing community, has to compete with other MMO's in an increasing saturated market and has ties to a name that has terrible reviews associated with it. Investment opportunity of the year!"
Truth.
Have more luck creating an entirely new I.P. We all love neocron here but it has an image problem and some serious baggage. We are stuck at an impasse. Can't get a new neocron and current neocron is practically retro, yet we still get these modern hipsters to play it :p
It is terrible, who ever translated mine (probably google too) said the investors "have a blender" rather than "have emerged as blender".Quote:
Originally Posted by Torg
It was pretty bad in this case. I speak no German but travel to DE and CH often from the US and it usually gets me by. I just hate when I go to a restaurant and no one speaks English and I have no cellular service! I just point at something and its always good.
I mostly posted the screenshot for the pics for William :)
We can always hope one of us hits the big lottery... I know if I did, I would look into resurrecting NC.
Indie developers make games on shoestring budgets all the time. If you just changed the name of the game and kept the core mechanics you'd be fine.
Like that pile of shite exile online tried to do.
Very true but Neocron is something quite ambitious if your an indie developer. This isn't your rougelike 32-bit game backed on Kickstarter.Quote:
Originally Posted by William Antrim
To make neocron 3, or at least a fully fleshed out version that can be a profitable project, you need a studio. You need a host of coders, animators, designers and testers, plus any other thing I've left out. Then you need a lot of time to develop it while making sure everyone gets paid and development is on track.
Then you need to find a way to keep it going. Microtransactions out the arse will do. That's what everyone else will do so you have to compete. Subscriptions wont cut it when you've got loads of free MMO's out there, so you get a cash shop going but you also need to draw in a new crowd.
Advertising out the arse and you will need to pander to your new audience so you will have to change aspects of the game to suit them.
My point is that the neocron we know and love is from a different age. A new Neocron...well get those COD kiddies and microtransactions and that is Neocron 3.
fuck no, dont say that hell-demon, we dont need that korean style microtransactions shit!!
say no to cash shops!
But realistically how would Neocron make it's money? Even Eve online now sells cosmetic skins for ships and cosmetic items for players and that still has the subscription model.
It's just a sign of the times. MMO's need cash shops. A new neocron would have one. What kind of cash shop is the crucial part.
Pay 2 win?
Or pay for conveniance and cosmetics?
The latter is better.
While there is tons of "Free MMO's" out there, non of them are cyberpunk. This game may never appeal to more than a few thousand (more for than enough to keep the game feeling populated) it all comes down to how big money they want to make. I feel a niche crowd would happily pay a subscription to play an updated Neocron. So if they charged £8.99 for say 5000 people then your pulling in around 500k a year.
The main issue seems the initial investment to get the game up to scratch and advertisement. Hard to estimate that though.
unfotunetaly the only F2P model that works is pay for skins only, and even that if there is a skin that camoflages you way more than others its still pay 2 win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hell-demon
did you play black prophecy? its not just the asians who rip you off with F2P model.
If there was the will there would be a way. A good captain can navigate through the most troubling waters.
I don't think there is the will in all honesty. Setting up a business is easy, making it a success is the hard part. What people say especially on the internet and what they do in life can be very different. If there was any motivation left we would have seen it long before now.
Now there's a big bitter pill of truth. A few years ago there was hype with a Neocron 3 poster but Kirk doesn't even post here anymore.
I play for nostalgia like so many here and atmosphere. I go down empty streets and remember moments with friends gone by. Its got a gritty noir feeling to it but not in a cyberpunk way.
I'm just amazed this relic of a game is still alive - albeit on life support and occasionally the catheter gets replaced.
They need to sell Neocron's IP and assets to someone for a realistic price.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hell-demon
There already was a working Neocron demo/game using the Unity engine. They had managed to translate assets from Neocron into a format that they could use with modern tools and then into Unity.
If someone was able to buy the rights to the IP, assets and the Unity demo/version files. That would be a massive start on importing the whole game whole into a modern format on a modern engine. From that things like unifying zone's into much larger zones could be done (eventually it could be made seamless). I'm not saying it would be easy but very much doable.
As for sustaining the game (after the initial capital, to pay for the conversion and updating work), the best better would be through cosmetic items/skins. There is always a demand for this kind of thing, and if you price them sensibly people will do it frequently. Charging a small fee to allow people to completely change the appearance of your character is another good way to make money.
Failing acquiring the IP and assets, then as someone has already suggested creating a spiritual successor is the way to go.
As for the costs, what needs to be done is to develop something that has feature parity with Neocron. Nothing more. (maybe even lose some features that don't serve a purpose)
If you have a look at something like Ark, they developed that game in 6 months, when they launched for early access. The game had/has bugs, but none worse than what Neocron suffered for year. (Fatal Exceptions when zoning anyone?)
They have a working, crafting system, stats, experience, mobs with differing stats/armor etc etc. Why do I mention this? Because these are all the features that Neocron uses or has things based on.
Anyway, I think I've made my point. It wouldn't be easy, but it's not outside of the realms of possibility and it could be done for far less than the millions people seem to think. In fact quite often games with a small budget have a higher chance of success, because they have to keep to realistic expectations.
All this talk of NC3 is pointless and will never happen. I've only had NC installed a week and the server has been up and down more times than a fiddlers elbow. I can't figure out what is happening. Is this a serious attempt to keep the game alive or a hobby? According to forums I see 40 plus people reading and yet no more than 15 online. People more interested in reliving nostalgia than playing? I would more rather see a complete ui rework bringing into a playable state than a pipe dream for NC3. Squinting is pissing me off big time
there, I fixed that for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuvibe
On a more serious note and to your question regarding the efforts to keep NC alive - at this point it is very much a hobby of those who host the infrastructure and dabble with the code/game. The guy who supposedly holds the trademark and IP for the game is waiting for a rainbow farting unicorn investor to come buy and drop a million or two, while all realistic suggestions for raising funds and kickstarting sustainable development have been blocked off. It is a lost cause.
Im sorry, but have to say.
Maybe... maybe... someone should start from scratch getting in mind what things make Neocron so unique.
I do not mind about calling it Neocron or Furdrum, but I am pretty sure that a cyberpunk game up to date will rock... not sure ?, just see the hype about Cyberpunk 2077.
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terror_Nonne
If they make a really nice kickstarter with videos, images, and a nice overall presentation I think this would do well on Kickstarter. It also depends on how much they need. Even with a kickstarter it probably wouldn't make nearly enough for what they actually need to finish the project.
With an distributed indie team and an indie budget you're going to be looking at $500,000 min to get a beta up and running, mainly because of the time/cost savings of not having to concept every character/mob from scratch nor having to design each and every system including balance testing and whatnot from scratch. I'd be more comfortable with $750,000 - $1,000,000 and then whatever else on top of that for post-betaQuote:
Originally Posted by Vid Gamer
An NC kickstarter could probably raise a couple hundred grand I'd say but 500k-1000k is out of the question for this game imho :(
You need someone with business acumen to run a successful kickstarter campaign. Kirk is not that person.
This.^Quote:
Originally Posted by tusinuno
If this dude can start a Kickstarter and get money then Neocron could definitely do it.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...pg/description
I don't think that's a good example. Basically an "ideas guy" who thinks you can make a massive open wolrd RPG for £200,000ish. He wants it to be like the witcher 3 which had a production budget of £83 million. Also I wonder what Disney's take on this will be?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid Gamer
Kickstarter is not a great platform and is often the last refuge of people bad at business.
i have a feeling that is a joke or put together by a kid.
The NC IP is also partially owned by the bank. It is probably entirely owned by the bank tbh and there is a bankruptcy order on the parent company. Any attempt to make a new game would also have to settle that debt to make use of any of the IP.
The current team is too small to do anything and clearly doesnt have the will beyond tweaking the current game and playing about with code under the hood and Kirk is not an entrepreneur. Anyone who blames the "investors" is clearly lacking a clue.
In short the game needs a project lead who has the will, motivation and business acumen to see it through. I havent seen that here at all. I think zoltan seems to be happy to just plod along being a code monkey and going "aw shucks, well i tried" when the server dies.
I had this conversation with him once before on these forums and lo and behold the thread got deleted.
Edit: I looked at the Kickstarter link - Who the fuck is Obi Jim Kenobi. He lost all credibility there.