Once again another non constructive useless whine post, why are you still posting.
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Once again another non constructive useless whine post, why are you still posting.
As a Roleplayer, I would like to thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arista Barret
Thanks for letting me know that I ruined your day, week or whatever. It fills me with so much pleasure that I know that now, i can't even tell you how nice it was of you to let all of us roleplayers know this.
P.S. A bit to think about: Maybe there are some people out there that don't want to PvP, because the people that should be their friends shoot at them all the time and then are not hard enough to bear the cross of Red SL, sitting around in safezones to get better again, or anything similar.
You behave shitty, you bear the consequences. Anything else is carebearish.
Will repost my constructive ideas, mainly because the thread is gettin hijacked by some poster (cannings) on a personnal crusade against another poster. I really feel what I want to convey is lost in all the bullshit that cannings sprouts against Arista simply because he doesn't like him. Nidhog man I'm looking in your direction right now.
Back on topic :
SL needs to be looked at, as the winner of an allied/allied or allied/neutral fight gets penalized by losing SL/Symps, and frankly being penalized for winning is wrong.
This system, penalizing the winning runner, is bullshit. It doesnt do any good to any of the parties involved and promotes exploiting itself.
I think the solution to this can come in many forms :
- Working Clan Wars
- Reworked SL/Symp mechanics
- Dynamic Faction Alliances
Working Clan Wars :
I think even the original intended design of this could help. Simply allowing Clans to wage war with enemy clans that are Neutral or Allied with no SL loss.
Reworked SL/Symp with something as :
- SL loss only for killing runners X amount of ranks below you, in all zones
- Symps gain/penalties in all zones based on faction
Dynamic Faction Alliances :
Basically, based on Average Faction Sympathy over all runners within a Faction, and also perhaps based on Faction Representative, a Faction could switch from Ally, Neutral or Enemy to another faction.
Now I understand this could prove the hardest to implement, but could potentially provide additional immersive elements.
Perhaps even future, RP based events could be scripted according to current faction relations...
I don't even know him, a response to his post isn't unwarranted nor is it helped by your attacking of me which apparently is okay in your rules.
As for your post the core of the game is based on the lore, allied factions should work together and should not be fighting, obviously this become problematic when only a few clans are full active limiting the amount of different factions you can fight. That said I still think you should be punished for skirmishes in the city especially if they are between neutral or friendly runners no matter if you have just had a fight over an op with them.
You're not penalising people for winning you're penalising them for betraying their alliances with their faction.
The main problem I see with clan wars is that what is to stop every clan adding every clan and just avoiding SL?
SL reworks, again you focussing on SL only protecting lower leveled runners when in reality what its meant to do is protect people you would hope to be allied with. Say as a new runner that is full levelled running through P2 or PP and see's a friendly runner he should not have to fear that he's going to get shot in the back as he runs through he should be able to know he is safe because the other runner would take serious punishment for killing him and that's how it should be!
I like the idea of dynamic faction alliances i'm just not sure how it would work in the game, how ever a rework of the allied and enemy factions might be an idea of which this is updated and changed reguarly as factions betray each other and things.
As far as faction goes, the way I see things is that WE, the runners, ARE the faction.
Also, the limited numbers of clans available for OP fight at a given time is what is usually the most determining factor in who a clan chooses to fight. The faction is probably the least determining factor.
I think I speak for everyone when I state that WE, OP waring clans, want to PVP, and usually the clan-vs-clan PVP goes farther than the OP fight zones, all the way to P2 and eventually OOC.
I would appreciate if the Dev took some time to consider this so we can have clan-clan PVP without having to deal with the stupid SL system.
It's already hard as it is to find a clan with enough online runners to OP fight, let us have clan-vs-clan PVP outside of OP zones.
Clan-vs-clan PVP should be rewarded, not penalized, no matter the place in-game.
And how about those who are getting attacked by an "allied", and kills the attacker? How is it fair to loose SL for defending yourself?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannings
It's not fair at all, no matter which angle you look from. This is absolutey one of the problems that the PVP community sees with the current SL system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dropout
On a RP sidenote, look at the Mafia for instance. It is constanty waging war against itself, prominent families wanting to take control or specific areas, and so on.
Same with the Biker Gangs, or the Street Gangs as well.
So all in all, I think it's not only valid for clans within same faction to be at war, it's also very realistic.
In a RP sense, our faction should have no say about the quest for dominance between clans from same faction.
Actually most of the RP arguments against SL rules changes are in my opinion dumbfounded.
The local authority will still seek maximum prosecution, despite how many criminal scumbags someone wipes off the streets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kame
Were talking about faction-issued punishment for killing same faction runner.
In-game, the SL loss to a Tsunami or Black Dragon runner for killing a same-faction peer has nothing to do with "local authorities".
Your point would be valuable if the SL loss was issued by Cityadmin for simply killing a runner, but it is not. If it would, you would lose SL for killing just about any faction runners, but such is not the case.
I have yet to see a well thought-out argumentation proving that the SL system isnt as broken as we prove it is.
I think RP shoul adapt to game mechanics, instead of being defined by it.
You compared it to real world dynamics, I just followed it to the logical conclusion.
Very well spoken Kami. if you take a minute to analyse the implications of the soul light system. it quickly falls apart and the truth is unfolded.
lol I liked the fact about defending yourself against a allied runner and tbh yes I can see where it falls over but that doesn't debase the entire SL system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kame
But then you went into your mafia point and I lost you again, so you're comparing neocron factions to one organisation which fight in house to seize power and that is like neocron how? Neocron is more like countries they have allies, in the majority (with a few exceptions) stick together through thick and thin.
Also i'm sorry but you say you don't see a valid arguement for the SL system yet you have yet to provide one outside of defending yourself (which someone else provided) as to the negatives to it, apart from you personally losing SL when you "win" a fight.
Split it down the middle in my opinion.
Negative faction sympathy AND neutral/enemy faction and the guards attack you.
Allied faction they warn you first and then attack you.
Own faction does not attack you.
Red SL - Copbots attack you on sight like NC1 copbots used to. Not the carebear ones today.
If you kill someone you get sympathy in your faction if they are enemy to you. If they are neutral you gain nothing. If they are allied you take a faction hit with their faction standing.
Gaining SL should be done automatically and slowly past -50 up to +10. After that it should be missions. -99 to -50 should be regained by killing enemy runners or people with shit soullight themselves.
This way if you had bad SL and your opponent did too (due to a clan war of some kind) then you would stand a chance of getting some reward eventually for killing them even though initially you would still be branded a murderer (as you committed a crime technically).
It would also allow the "RED SL" guys to work their SL off in their own HQ if their own guards didnt attack them.
The penalties are too harsh. in protest there will be a New droner clan with all neg 100 sl. once again le and carebears will not be affected. Pvp rules and systems should not be centered around le and carebear entitlements. get ready for Kami drones in p2 and op wars. hopefully the pvpers will grow tired of being told how to play by non pvperz.
i dont think this mmo is ever going to be CS or UT on a bigger map. any attempts to remove the RP part are futile.
Soooo what are you trying to gain by that? Scare away the few active PVP'ers there are? Personally I dont even bother trying, when there is kami droners around..Quote:
Originally Posted by Arista Barret
I think pinky needs a hug. All this anger isn't good for one person.
if someone has to resort to being a douche to punish people, that someone just proves he's a troll.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dropout
I am just going to play a red SL character in the only viable way. This is a square peg filling a square hole....Everyone must realize the implications of rules and restrictions against Red SL chars. I have three choices. First-go afk for 4 days. Second-do 600 missions. Third-Go kami droner and stay negetive 100 forever. With the current rules you cannot play a red SL char in any other viable way.
Well you could use Epic-weapons which you cannot drop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arista Barret
Epic weapons are not very PVP viable... They dont do enough damage, they are especially useless against a PPU buffed target.
Also if I'm not mistaken, even the jones stealth can be dropped in red SL belt.
It cant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kame
And Zsusun/Xbow cant either..
Make a CA Melee tank/Xbow PE with the ncpd PA, and you're good to go.
These are great ideas. I hope the devs are taking notes on new and fun ways to enjoy NC pvp. I hope that one day the devs actively support pvp diversity. Simple changes like -75 SL to lose a lock-slot instead of -33. The chance to kill the proper enemies to build SL back up. Zones where red sl fighters are welcomed to join a fight and more opportunity to hack their juicy belts.
If we can work this out to be presentable to the devs it could happen. We can bring pvp diversity back to NC. 100 SL roleplayers and easy going pvpers.....neg 100sl pvp maniacs. The least we can ask for is less penalties and less hard hits on SL along with less time consuming ways to regain SL. This simple change will bring more pvp to the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kame
It would be cool if the SL hit was based on the target's SL.
If you kill a 100 SL char your SL should drop to -100 SL immediately. This way the kill of a RP char would be punished sufficiently.
I can see in this thread that the -100 SL are a good punishment so this should work. It should not be changed.
The other way around is that if a char is killed with 0 SL the SL of the killer should not change.
For the people with minus SL I would change the ratio tho. For the kill of a -100 SL char I would give the killer a plus of 10 SL.
This way the -SL chars would be hunted by the right people, and the fights were fair and enjoyable for both.
Regards
Ehhhh... LOL?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Eres
BTW it is already in place that you Loose SL depending on your own against the person you kill IIRC.
The numbers may sound extreme and can be changed but the intention is to efficiently protect people from unconsented PvP, like tradeskillers and RP chars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dropout
Honestly, I think its a horrible idea, since you have no way of seeing what your enemy SL is at.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Eres
BTW not only tradeskillers/RP'ers have a SL at 100.. My current SL is at 100 aswell, because I currently dont have any disliked Allies/neutrals.
EDIT:
It is also something that could be used as a griefing Tool.. Attack someone while having 100 SL, and let him kill you...
Again, NOT a good idea.
This could be easily changed. Like in other games one could add a permanent title bar above the char which inidcates the most important data (SL, Faction, Clan). This would be a good thing independent from the theme here generally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dropout
Reed
I dont like the idea of losing SL based on a target's SL.
Very easily exploitable, and still punishes you for say, killing a neutral/ally PPU, woth a huge SL hit. I can already see people logging allied PPU to rezz in P2, and either you kill them and go red SL right away or you habe to let em rezz....
I think SL should simply be a rule to protect noob ganking. Kill someone 15 or 20 lvs below you and take a -25 SL.
I think it also should only apply within the walls of NC.
What happens in the wastes, stays in the wastelands.