before i explain it wrong... let alduin do his job ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRobot
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before i explain it wrong... let alduin do his job ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRobot
To "mainstream" Dissy to its non-rare counterpart.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRobot
This was a change wanted by the community (and IMO a great change).
Yup, maybe a tad to much. Then again its even harder to use than devo..Quote:
Originally Posted by walkman
Leave me my toy! :D (Alduin told me its fixed already)Quote:
Originally Posted by walkman
I dont really mind my invincible, reviving HC pe with TL70 Imbaflamer.. fun times. The only thing it cant outheal is a Devourer that hits every shot :D
Dont tell me this, because its just works. You think you are able escape with broken legs? You think that tank is very-very slow? Just keep short distance and shoot in back of enemy. Very hard to use, yes. This is why it deals 30+ dmg per tick. While time cast of spell around 7 seconds vs 8 seconds on stack. This is equals to 7 seconds x 30 dmg per tick = 210 dmg and 30 dmg will be removed (on success) via spell. OR you may stop/open inventory and use antifire drug in that time you will get 2+ another stacks. OR dont use spells shields, dont use stealth, dont use paratemol/desterol/etc really usefull drugs and keep only 9 antifire/antipoison drugs on belt.Quote:
Originally Posted by slith
I will be glad to hear how many deals arti-dev on stacks. 50 dmg per tick? Or 100? And why TL 96 pistol deals only 8 dmg?
I was the first person on this thread to say dissy should be changed to 3 burst...Your Welcome
The reason for the Disruptor change was to bring it in line with all the other puleslaser rifles and to force players to have to aim more often when using the disruptor.
R#186 - T#194 - Release Candidate Three has been released! Please have a look at the patch notes thread. The APU finally received some additional love, although I have to admit that I accidentaly forgot to move one of the spells, but the next and hopefully final iteration will include it. Something which still needs a look are drones, as well as low frequency weapons like the ionic shotguns or the silent hunter.
In my opinion the damage over time of a flamethrower should be the largest because it burns you which really hurts and hurts a larger area of your body.
So the cast times of the antidote spells is too long, right?
We are getting closer so keep it up guys!
I've just logged onto verdeena and APU spells are still 32 freq, arguably APU spells should dot, I logged my APU and fired at the target range using apoc, and then switched to my tank with the devourer, why would apoc not dot and and the dev do? also the anti spells don't seem to have switched over, only 1 has, the rest still require PPUQuote:
Originally Posted by Alduin
Why is the nanite injector healing equal to a psi heal at that techlevel? shouldnt it be much lower heal/min cause of:
1. you can use both nanite tools at onces, tl 14 and tl 40.
2. highest heal pe/spys can use is the tl 10 anyway, so already lower than the tl 14 tool.
3. no casttime
4. you dont need a glove and psi points to use the tools, so you can spec psi resist and use a dex glove for higher weapons.
in my optionion it should be tl 14 tool < tl 3 heal < tl 40 tool < tl 10 heal
i havent test it, i just read it in the notes and wanted to write it down to test later when i m back ;)
the heal tools stack on your screen, show the healing in the damage log but still heal the same amount as a normal tl40 heal tool solo. test it out
In my opinion the WoC pistol must be acceptable. You got that pistol after completing the one of hardest/longest quests in the game. Even in PvE this pistol shows worst DPS/DPM. Any non-rare pistol deals much more damage then it. What is point to complete the quest? To get ultimate rifles, right! Remove this pistol entire of game. The pistol shames balance team work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alduin
Think about against what or who pistol was created. Against tank? LOL. Against spy? LOL. Against APU? LOL. PPU? Double LOL. For PvE? Triple LOL. Even on mobs if you have no misses and release full pack then total ticks deals max 100 dmg. Funny. TL 70 flamer on mob in shooting range deals own 296 dmg + 30 dmg per tick of one stack. Pistol on same mob deals around 150 dmg and tick 8 deals dmg. TL 70 vs TL 96. Funny.
Keep in mind the fact that pistol deals only piercing damage type. And this pistol is not sub-machine gun. Yes, pistol's shot. frequency is pretty fast. And so? In PvP no one able to shoot non-stop with 100% headshots in 3 seconds. Untill target dont move, of course. Heal spells and heal tools heals you up to 16 hp per tick. So, I need to put in your head 2 bullets to disable your heal. And one more bullet to deal 8 dmg per tick. FUNNY.
Try yourlself. Keep 150 hp. Get 1-2 stacks from TL 70 flamer and try to cast spell. If you survive then balance is perfect. Dont forget to run, with broken legs. Dont forget to cover somewhere. Simulate real PvP situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alduin
---
UPDATE
How to balance such tools?
The target. In this case these spells usefull for apu (hybrid?), PE and PPU.
Penalties versus drusg:
* PSI cost. Monks already have a lot of PSI energy. In the same time monks spend your energy on combat spells too. PEs usually does not have a lot of PSI energy, they should keep max WEP and PPU/FCS/PPW. My PE able to have 60 or maximum 70 PSI energy. So, I can use maximum 2-3 antidote spells.
* Time cost. There are two things and I said about them above.
** Cast time vs stack time. Currently, 6-7 seconds on cast vs 8 seconds on stack is NOT acceptable.
** Cast time vs drugs. The game is old. In the WoW we have multi-tabbed belt. There is no such. APU/PPU and PEs cant keep belt full of antidot drugs. Also, we need stop and drug-and-drop drugs after they used. Basically, to use drug from inventory I spend about 3 seconds. When battle is hot possible much more. Using from inventory has huge penalty: dont move. Using drug from belt penalty: hotkey's cost.
What is time for casting spell should be?
Spell's penalties:
* Hotkey
* Casting time
* PSI energy
Think yourself. Spell should help me. And does not work against me. I pay big price to use spell already. Time is not such thing that decides everything.
yeah that woc weapon is probably a bit too low... but stop the loling ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by walkman
pistol does pretty good against everything atm, if you dont just try the woc one. i would recommend ya to switch the LOL with L2P. Ur faster with pistol than every other weapon except psi users, but they are also even more fragile and the aim closes so fast on pistols, flamer are a pain in the ass to aim, so they need higher damage. Its a question of skill when all the weapons are finally really good balanced. And dont forget its still on testserver... so no decision is made.
what class are we talking about? stop talking bout casttimes of crahn antispells for pe, they were never used in pvp and the only one useable/that would make sence on pe anyway is the crahn antifire... no more words bout that.Quote:
Originally Posted by walkman
look above ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by walkman
The casttime of that spells decreases at higher tls of the spell, holy one is 4 secs.Quote:
Originally Posted by walkman
Dont want to repeat myself again, but thats what neocron is about, the skill and knowlege of the game when to use drugs or if you dont use one for that stack, when to refill the belt and what to keep in belt. As you were talking bout pe all the time, refill the belt in stealth, usually you can do 5-7 slots in that few seconds, if not? Train it and become better, i ll ask tino to make a how to refill my belt in combat vid on yt for ya ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by walkman
Thanks for that info. Anyway, psi heals need more heal than tools that dont need anything. Like i wrote aboveQuote:
Originally Posted by tarasm
Faster? With pistol?! Who have 100 CON and able to put in athletics 120+ points? Just be fastest, then open fire with ultimate flamer. No one able to escape with broken legs. No one able to remove 5 stacks in 1 second. What is point to create ultimate weapon for class with best speed in the game? There are no such weapon which deals a lot damage on tank. No such. Because tanks have best armor. Best resists. Able be fastest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasore
And now they possible be useful. Okey.jpg. Remove these spells entire the game and question will be closed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasore
Also, I had tested all things above with HC PE. Which able to rezz. Rezz!!!
Are you kidding? Fire stack puts on you amazing visual effects! What is reason to use stealth if anyone able to see where are you? Much more. To use stealth you spend 1-2 seconds. To run away one more a few seconds. Meanwhile stack will kill you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasore
Dont post stupid videos from Titan, there are broken stacks. Put your videon from Vedeena :)
---
My PEs belt for duels/pair:
1. Gun
2. Stealth
3. Heal spell
4. Deflector
5. Absorber
6. Protector
7. Pistol boost OR antidote fire?!
8. Paratemol OR antidote fire?!
9. Redflash OR antidote poison?!
0. Stamina booster OR antidote poison?!
With 2 injectors situation will be much funny. This setup is NOT for OP fights, sure. So, in that case you should say DONT fight, just run away. Because PE in duels is nothing. Even with right hands. Great!
Or, dont use any spells. Dont get 7-8% resi from spells. Sure. Great balance!
Looks like there are all experts, which can only use cheats, bugs and expoit the game in all holes. What is reason to keep such wide plot of things? Remove all useless things. Let's start from removing low level spells from PE.
In the end.
All games rely on how hands of player are good. In this game one class so easy in control that even with hands from an ass you will win almost always. Sad.
This is because I had leaved the game. This is pointless to play in mythical Role-Player-Game. There are only one correct role: tank. Tank with best armors. Tank with best weapons. Tank with best speed. Tank with better aiming than pistol. Dont you believe in that? Try yourself, from start to end game. Well, heavy weapons should miss a lot (or I believed in that), at least they should miss more then pistols. There is vice versa. Even in middle of game a heavy weapon misses less then any pistol. Heavy weapons deals much more damage then any pistol. Heavy weapons has better range then any pistol. Aiming speed you say? Its almost the same for all types of weapons. Especially in close range combat, i.e. 100% aim in 1-1.5 second.
What is reason to play as P-C char? Only one, the pain in you ass. If you want sado-mazo playgame then choose pistol combat. That's so called role-play.
So, useless spells shows you how bad balance is. The idea was to create wide range of possible builds/setups. Now, even PE should look like a tank. Yes, dont use spells. Yes, use only drugs as tank does. Sad.
Why we have wide range of setups? Let's remove all useless chips and create 4 playable setups for each class. PE able to rezz? Impossible! Remove all abillities to do that! PE able to remove stack via spell? Ridicules. Remove that ability either. PE able to use HC? Fantastish! Only tank must use heavy weapons. And so on.
okay that can only cause a big lol of my side,
have you ever played with a flamer for example? same aimspeed as pistol? no way.
if your flamer aims that fast, plz send me your dev files ;)
viable setups for pvp? i can at least give ya 10 setups for pe i already tried at vedenna.
used weapons: pot/ttepic/plasma wave/xbow/rolh/libi/wyat/tsu epic/desperado/rog with and without psi setup.
why tank got the most con and best armor? cause they cant stealth? no pvp subskills like hacking?
tank the fastest class? run with your weapon pulled and tell me that again.
120+ athletics... plz stop trolling, thats no con setup that is total crap, no resists?
Leveling as pistol is the same as with hc, you just approach the fight a bit different, raypistols at regant, rocket pistols in crp caves, beam pistols/plasmas vs warbots, firemobs. i dont see any problem.
what implants are useless? the only real useless onces are probably the +X con chips, that moveon/marine needs rebalancing is true, same with the psi implants.
And? I saw only one good setup on PE: low tech + libby/pain easer/etc. And still, when you cut half life on tank you possible already died.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasore
Tell me this again when you got 3 stacks from devo, ha!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasore
Xpertz shares own accounts, ask Systemshock, for instance, about that. Hacker for OP? Or for what? Multi-accounting rulez. Ask everybody on server.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasore
Wear/hide in less then second. This is all answer. Aim? Close to victim as possible, then wear weapon and got 100% aim in less 1 second. Then burn victim in 5 seconds and see how he doing nothing and died.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasore
I did not said that you must spend all point in athletics. Just install implants to improve that. While other classes can't do such things. This is too expensive for them. Wear TL 70 flamer and burn everyone around you. That's future of Neocron.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasore
I did not point PvE above. Try self, how aim works. Do you see any differences? I am not. All the same. I had got less misses with heavy weapons then pistol. This is my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasore
Ah, yes. Tanks should be much stronger. Even when they are strongest class already.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasore
With HC weapons? At what skill setup?Quote:
Originally Posted by walkman
With any weapons. The longest aim have only rifles. I suppose everybody read how many points spend to get best aim speed. Someone have even source code of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drachenpaladin
http://www.techhaven.org/resources/w...nce-guide.html
So, if you smart enough you know how many points put in each skill to get best aiming. The only one problem here, that only few people know what "Base" value is set for each weapon. When you have found this value your setup will be clear.
I had already deinstalled the game and I have not any reason to get back. Just be a tank and everything will be ok. If you fights against another tank then this is normal situation: your hands is your main weapon.
How hard to use:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blFusUh6hkY
is it you on the tank? i dont think so
if you cant win against a tank in pvp you should probably train to get better. Tank is the strongest class atm on titan cause the cs does too much dmg, but i dont think so on vedeena. btw flamer does less dmg when the aim is not full closed, why that flamer does so much damage atm when you hit someone is cause none specs fire, cause only flamer does real fire dmg and you hardly see someone using it cause its so hard to aim with.
How better? When my xbow deals 48 dmg on tank, how many time I should spend to win? When I will be able to kill tank with such setup and then I switch to tank I sure you that I will able to win against 2 or even 3 tanks :DQuote:
if you cant win against a tank in pvp you should probably train to get better.
What I want to say that aim mechanic does not give any advantages to other class, expect monks. The major advantage of monks is that their aim is about 0.1 second. In same time I see that any pistol have in 1.5 times less range. In 1.5 times deals less damage. Or in 8 times less ammo package in case of ionic pistol. You may search video on youtube where PE or Spy plays with pistols and you will see that their aiming even worst then your CS/Devo/etc. There are a lot of video with OP, in rare case pistol deals primary damage, most damage deals other people and not the man from video. And there are a lot of stupid/smart video where some guys came with laser rifles (which as every one know does not work in pvp), or then man hunting on the back victim, this is a real crap. In same time even with PPU shields spies/PEs has lost more then half their hp and this is total lose in duels/pairs. And you still say that I should better train? Where no real advantages?
Tell me, what are advantages of PE/pistol?
* Shields/spells?
On my setup total resist (with spells and armor) against any elemental damage (fire/energy/poison/xray) is about 48-49% versus 55+% on any tank. I have 60% against piercing, 59.5% against force, any tank have same or even better.
* Stealth?
I have real close combat, because the best pistol has 352m range and mostly I dont use it. Any tank doesnt stay in one place and move/run on me. After that I will got devo with fire stack. Use stealth and what? Right, tank stays near me with reloaded weapons and with 50% hp in best case, and he heals self with medkit + 2 injectors. While I have less 300 hp and cant do anything.
* Drugs?
Is there some special drug for PE? No. Everybody uses the same range of drugs: paratemol, desterol, redflash, whiteflash and so on.
* Can I have better speed then tank?
Yes, but I will be weak in factor of 2-3. What is point in that?
* Is a real requirement to wear PA on PE?
Yes, but good tank does not wear any PA! Who is biggest char in game? Yeah, the biggest texture in such case I have and not a tank.
* Do I have better aiming then heavy cannon?
No. In close range aiming the same.
* Do I deal better damage then heavy cannon?
No. Best pistol has 1 bullet and without 100% aiming it misses in 80%+ cases.
* Do I have better reload speed on pistol?
No. Every weapon has almost same reload time. In case of heavy cannons there are no real advantages.
* Do I have better speed with pistol in hand?
Yes, the advantage is about +5 ath and +5 agi. But time for wear/hide of any weapon is the same and takes less 1 second. So, smarty tank in any case able to get closer to you then you are able to escape and sneak from him.
* Do I have ability to remove stack with spell?
Yes, but its does nothing. I just lost a time for something better.
* Do I have ability to spend skill points in hacking/something else?
Yes. But if you spend 100 points in hacking/anything your aim will be worst in around 30% and output will be also bad. Dont spend f*** points on something except combat skills!
* Do I have some special ability?
No. This is not the WoW. No advantages, only pack of disadvantages.
tl;dr walkman has no skills and complains that pistols sucks. aiming is def better on pistols than cs close combat. you can also drop a tank with a clip of bhg if you land all your shots in the head. while the cs is overpowered, as a pistol spy im not scared of any other hc weapon especially a devo. be fast, move well and have aim and youll be dropping most dev tanks.
finally someone who got it... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by tarasm
btw, monks aim in 0,1 secs? u must be drunk. if ur aim isnt closed on a monk you dont deal any real dmg, and if ur really lucky you get the good old waving hand bugs and then casting is fucked for the next 2-3 secs
if the aiming % in the weapon info is 250% aiming is capped... you get that on most setups even with subskill in int.
So, your PPU casts on you bad buffs in OP fights, LOL. Because mechanic for PPU and APU spells are same. In next 2-3 secs I may run away, turn on 180 degree and do the same again. And trust me, victim will got all its damage. And actually this is not a bug. This is just prevent spell spuffing/spamming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasore
There are no cap. That thing in info is just soft cap. When you reached it any adjustment has smaller effect. Read the notes from dev. In another case they are liers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasore
thought we speaking of dmg dealers.... now you come along with ppus...Quote:
Originally Posted by walkman
I just point you that your conclusions are wrong. If APU should get aim like Spy/Tank and wait for it 2 seconds then its totally disbalance game. APU cant stay and take all damage from CS/BHG. Thats why APU is able to aim on you in 0.1 seconds, cast spell, turn around and cover somewhere. And APU do this again and again. Your BHG kills APU within 3-4 shots. And what he able to do with you? Correct, nothing. And many non-monks players like this. So, I want in that case that PPU also doing aim in 3 seconds, like my xbow does, otherwise spell should totally falls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasore
The another solution is give to APU ultimate DD spells, which deals 1k and more damage per cast. But where is such spell? Correct, there are no one. Where is working PSI resist skill? Nowhere. We have what we have. And still some tanks thinks that they are weak...
First of all a kind and friendly reminder to everyone in this thread to be nice and polite to each other. In case you have any troubles/want to compare your e-peen with each other log in to Vedeena and resolve your problems on the battlefield!
Walkman: may I conclude from the following:
that you have never set foot onto Vedeena?Quote:
Originally Posted by walkman
I was on Veedena and did tests and all my messeges about issues rely for Vedeena. TL 70 flamer was (and possible still, i did not test last patch) overpowered in duel HC PE vs PC PE (T#193). Antidotes spell casts within 6-7 seconds, I died many times, even on success of spell, But stack killed me 1 second before then cast ended.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alduin
And currently, yes, I have deinstalled game, because I see your balance direction. Its not a funny play with pistol which deal less 120 dmg and put stack with 8 dmg. TL/DPM curve is broken in such way. The game stays same: strongest will stronger, weakest will weaker. The same thing that best pistol on PE is stays for xbow. Judge unfixed. Backup Gun unfixed. And many other usefull pistols unfixed. Look at TL 92 Pulselaser, why it deals more damage then Judge (same for Titan, same for Vedeena/T#193)? Look at TL 87 Blacksun, same thing, it deals more damage then Judge.
And now, some "hard to use" TL 70 flamer deals twice more damage then even xbow: 150 dmg own + 240dmg per stack (30dmg x 8 sec) = 390 dmg.
resist psi is working... [Edited] Otherwise you would have seen it in the logs ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by walkman
[Edited]Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasore
And what about resist psi, how it works? Works like that PPU unable to heal you? :D