Your input on: Wisdom of Ceres (short term)

[Bragi]

This is one of two threads about your views on the Wisdom of Ceres (WoC) system. Here we are discussing the current implementation of the mechanic. The other thread on the system as a whole can be found here.

Currently the WoC system is simply an item requirement. Without generating new models, textures and core game mechanics, all we can really do is play with what the items do as they stand, add/remove a WoC requirement or create new items with existing assets.

I'd like this thread to mostly focus on the current items, but give some ideas about what we could implement in the short-term.

I, the team in general and a sizable proportion of the community (if not a decent majority) do not want WoC to be a necessity/requirement for top-end game-play; NC has always been a game where you level quickly relative to other games, and barriers to reaching what is considered the 'true' part of the game have long been frowned upon if not resented. Part of the Rare/MC5 changes were to increase the viability of near-capped and capped-but-casual players.

Do/will some people who have worked hard for the past/current benefits of WoC feel cheated?
Yes, of course they will. Greater good and all the other self-justifying comments you could care to conjure.

So aside from some different textures, what is the point or aim of WoC?
If it provides no overall benefit, what should be done with it?
Is 'look at me I'm so shiny in my black and white-trim armour' enough?

Currently the WoC PAs (on Vedeena) generally provide exactly the same stats as the regular PAs, but with a different texture.
Is that the sort of thing you want? Or would you want WoC to provide a different option.
As it stands the WoC weapons simply provide a different option/setup choice (mainly a TL choice the rares don't fill), should this carry over to the PAs so that while their total benefit is that same as other PA slot items, they provide setup choices that are otherwise unavailable?

Eg. The PE combat suits provide either DEX or ATH/ALG, but for the Spy it's DEX or a mix of RC, PC, ATH and AGL in smaller amounts and for the Tank it's STR or MC/HC. WoC PA/combat suits for the PE might offer RC/PC, those for the Spy pure ATH/AGL, etc.
Then of course you can quite easily have WoC implants that allow something different. Perhaps a new line of mob bones like the Bat Queen, or old content like the Kamikaze chips or (properly implemented) Spirit mods.


Of course another issue which we may be able to implement in the short-term is the level at which the classes reach WoC.
A debate as old as WoC itself, but we might as well talk about it again.

[Trivaldi]

Personally I've always felt WoC should be a cool visual upgrade, a cosmetic pay off for sticking with a character long term. A badge of honour. A way to show off that this character has been around a while. A symbol of dedication.

Remember when everyone wanted the mythical epic status (you didn't actually get for completing all the epics) to show off? Like that.

It certainly shouldn't be essential for PvP.

While additional options are great, it could be that "the perfect setup" which changes from patch to patch, could end up requiring WoC equipment for the sake of a point being in skill A rather than skill B and giving that setup the edge. That would then undermine your efforts in providing those alternative options within the scope of WoC.

There's a whole argument to be had here over the lore as well, which could have a certain effect on how we go about this but I guess that's a discussion for later.

[Bragi]

While additional options are great, it could be that "the perfect setup" which changes from patch to patch, could end up requiring WoC equipment for the sake of a point being in skill A rather than skill B and giving that setup the edge. That would then undermine your efforts in providing those alternative options within the scope of WoC.

Entirely true. And is a risk with any new content as well.
It might sound like deflecting the question/problem when to say that any such issue would fall under the scope of continual balance/adjustment but, well it's probably both.

There's a whole argument to be had here over the lore as well, which could have a certain effect on how we go about this but I guess that's a discussion for later.

That will be in the next thread .

[Ascension]

Would be nice to see Monks get WoC related weaponry, along with a rare poison beam

[Fremen]

-Would be nice to see more WoC related items for Tanks such as melee and heavy weapons
Heavy: Do you have any textures or unique weapon models to create one ?
Melee: How about we move the katana skin as a WoC Melee (move Tzu Sun to the WoC pool).

-For PSI, I don't see a spell to be related to WoC, but how about implants that allow Hybrids.
We can picture as a lore that old PSI knowledge didn't made a difference between aggressive/passive and monks where good in both schools ?

-I'd like to see different stats related to PA instead of Skins only. Neocron has always been close to realism... How could a PA from a long forgotten technology provide identical stats values as a current PA ? It should be balanced to be similar yet provide different bonuses, such as resistances variants for exemple.

-I'd love to see the WoC xp requirements lowered substantially. As it doesn't add to anything special and we have already enough grinding in every other aspect of the game which are much more fun to perform. Especially for the Private Eye.

[Morpheus]

I personally don't mind small advantages via WOC in PvP, as long as reaching WOC (up to 3 for the PA) doesn't contain such a pain in the ass (sorry that language) as like that boosted Nightmare end boss right now.

This was the actual reason for me to quit (again) some months ago.

I wouldn't mind to login every evening and have a few rounds in Regants to slowly but surely level up. But it shouldn't end up being a hustle, which can happen easily enough anyway with the PvP aspect in your back at all times.

[Fremen]

(...) as long as reaching WOC (...) doesn't contain such a pain in the ass (sorry that language) as like that boosted Nightmare end boss right now.
This was the actual reason for me to quit (again) some months ago.
(...)

I'm glad you're giving your input Morpheus, because I know that some players have left NC only due to the intense WoC grinding, but sadly we don't hear their thoughts on this because obviously they left the game and forum... So I think we should really consider this !

Those who are active in the forum are obviously those who dealt with the grind are still here. It doesn't mean it should be that long to grind.

Also a lot of the new NC2.2 quest are a lot of fun and tough, such as the Reagant PA, the DoY WoC and the xBow. All those mission are hard, they need team work and also require end game gear such as tier 4 armors, rare weapons and capped chars. I think this should be how we obtain WoC. Through quests that drive us all around the world of NC.

[Drachenpaladin]

Personally I don't mind having WoC being cosmetical items. Bring on the swag-factor!

[Divide]

This was more of a long-term idea.

[William Antrim]

Personally I don't mind having WoC being cosmetical items. Bring on the swag-factor!

This please. Make it visual, cosmetic. A badge of honour as triv said. Progression related in terms of how old the char is but not anything to do with advantage over a "younger" player.

[Drachenpaladin]

Although.. I wouldn't mind a "vintage" carried Vulcan Gatling Cannon for Tanks as a Warhammer alternative