The Implant & Power Armour changes and You

[Bragi]

The latest patch to Vedeena included the long awaited rework to the implant system. Power armours were also included as they function in a similar manner.

I'm going to break this down into a number of subjects to explain what the thinking behind the changes are, what it means for you and your setup choices.

Though, before I start, I need to point out that this is not a tweak, this is a complete, ground-up, redesign of the entire implant system.
Yes, there is a good chance you are going to have to entirely rework your setup.
Also, I know there's a lot of text below, so even if you don't read all of this, at least try to look at the changes with a fresh mind, try not to directly compare what is on Vedeena currently with what's on Titan and think about the new system on it's own.

Also, check out this post by Zoltan.
Many things on Vedeena are not as they 'should' be, especially overall dmg output and mob HP.
We also know some weapons are not where they should be.

De-cluttering

The implants are a bit of a mess; many are pointless, the values are frequently illogical and then there's those decimals.

As you many have noticed, we've gone back to an integer system. It looks cleaner and it makes it quicker to judge the effects of an item.

We've also tried to make each implant have a use, be it for general PvE, hunting a specific mob type, PvP or something else. The effects are a little more 'elemental', and specific to that implant's role.
Many current implants are almost randomly assigned negatives, almost for the sake of it, just to make the system look more interesting, regardless of the necessity.
Eg. the DIP and CCP both reduce FCS (for whatever reason). OK, if you have both a PE can't use the blessed deflector, but there's no tangible effect from just one. A negative needs to work in isolation and in context.
Generally then, with the new system, there is no negative unless where there is an express purpose.


'Content Creep'

A problem that has afflicted NC since almost the beginning is the effect of new content that is not balanced with the pre-existing items.
This can be most clearly seen in the PAs, rare implants, MC5s and of course WoC items.
Each time a new set comes out, it is invariably better overall than what has preceded it.

With NC2, this became even more pronounced. The WoC PAs and power difference between non-rare, rare and MC5 implants grew considerably.
This brings about two central issues; much less variation and the promotion of higher TL weapons (as a generalisation).

The aim with the rework is to create a system where there is more top tier variation and there is not a clear select few items that are 'the best'. This does not simply mean nerfing (though in some cases a power reduction in one place is better than a power increase elsewhere).
That said, this does bring us to the next two sections.


Equal Potency across each Tier.

The top tier of implant options is always going to be the one people select from, but within each tier, each implant needs to be of equal benefit as the others. Case in point: Persistence Advancement vs. Just about anything.

This can be very hard to judge however. What is the equivalent +HLT to +20 HC? Or AGL to a Resist?
This is where testing comes in. I can make as many 'educated' guesses about the value of any given bonus/implant, but only time will tell.


Tier 3 vs. Rare and MC5 implants.

The most controversial of the changes, and an on-going debate.

I will not disagree that the Rare and MC5 implants should not be of equal overall potency as the Tier 3s. They are the best available and are considerably harder to acquire than the vendor versions. How much better is the heart of the question.
Without creating Tier 4 and 5 versions of each Tier 3 implant, you have an incomplete selection at end-game.
There are two main arguments here:

Firstly, that the increased difficulty in acquisition and the very nature of being in a higher Tier means that the Tier 4 and 5 implants need to be notably more powerful.
More dedicated players are duly rewarded and the difference between Tiers is maintained.

On the other hand, near-cap and casual players find their ability to compete in PvP hampered by having to wait until they have access to the top Tier items.

We have to make a choice about where our 'base line' for end-game is. Is it with MC5s - the top Tier, or the Tier 3s - which cover a much wider variety of types and are more accessible.

As you can tell from the linked thread and the changes in the latest patch, I am more on the side of the latter.

The main Rare and MC5s you may note, are essentially Tier 3 implants of a certain line, but rather than being better in their core bonuses, provide the same main benefit, with a 'side-order' of +15 to another skill; usually things like HCK, TRA, VEH and WEP.
Rares have one of these, MC5s have two.

Eg.
Co-Ordination 3: +5 Dex
Special Forces: +5 Dex, +15 HCK
Synaptic Accelerator: +5 Dex, +15 HCK, +15 WEP.

There's also the advantage of the wider options available. There's only two +5 dex brain implants (Co-Ordination 3 and Exp. Ballistic 3), but with Tier 4 & 5 access, there are four.
Is this enough of a boost though? Go over to the thread and discuss.


Requirement changes.

You may have noticed that the high level implants and PAs have had their requirements lowered, significantly in some cases.

We want to promote the use of lower TL weapons, but in order to use the top Tier implants and the best PAs, a char would have to access a +main-skill bonus that would enable them to use a higher TL weapon, at which point it's self-defeating to use the originally planned weapon as you can't make up for the lower dmg with either a combat sub-skill or a defence option.

Rares now have a main-skill req of 70, MC5s are 75 and the top level PAs are 5 below the relevant main-skill cap. This means anyone using a weapon from Epics and above has just as much end-game content access as anyone else.

An added bonus is that this should put an end to having to relog or drug to activate implants/PA after SI (except possibly HC/MC PEs).


Power Armour and other PA-slot items.

As power armours affect non-armour skills, they are essentially another implant slot and as such can be seen as part of a setup choice.

When I came to rework them, then first thing that noticed was the shear number of PAs that were ingame. Over 60 in fact, not including underwears.
In this there is of course a lot of waste; some classes can't even use some of the ones available to them or find them difficult to reach, many of them are worn briefly as part of leveling and some just aren't worth it. Plus, despite the number, there really isn't much variation.

To that effect, the first change is to consolidate types together, Eg. HC and MC bonuses on the same piece. This frees up half of the primary PAs for each class.
Next, rather than four levels, there are now two, a mid-level version and an end-game one. This takes us from eight to two.

What's done with the others?
Firstly, you may notice that the power armours have something like 'Combat' or 'Power' in their title and others 'Armour' or 'Reenforced'.
The latter are PAs with no combat sub- or main-skill bonuses, just armour. The former have smallish bonuses, but less armour, so we have some more defence/offence ratio variation.

Next is Combat Suits!

Or more simply put: No-PA PA.
Combat Suits are essentially PAs without a model change and a lower armour value, but have much larger bonuses. Again they are split into two types, generally one provides a large main-skill bonus and the other a large sub-skill effect.
They are distinct from underwear in that they have the same requirements as PA. PAs and combat suits are the end-game PvP PA slot items, once the armour rework is done, underwear will lead up to the first level PA/suit and include some higher level PvE options that provide higher armour values in a single area (unlike the PAs/suits that are split over at least two armour types).

There are also a few 'experimental' PAs and combat suits that provide much higher bonuses (armour or skills), but have significant drawbacks.

Implant types and building a setup.

As mentioned earlier, a key aim is to make each implant a viable choice. Currently there are a number of implants which are in many ways non-choices, frequently because they do two jobs at once; the best +rifle combat implant and the best +dex implant are the same thing.
Separating the implants into more clearly defined roles and making all the different types in a given Tier of equal potency, hopefully will give us more variation.

In general, implants are split into a number of types:

Offensive.

• Main-skill
• Sub-skill
• Mixed

Defensive.

• Resist/Health
• Strength increase to use better armour (mainly PEs and Spies, will be more relevant when the armour rework comes along)
• Speed

Experimental.

Other.

• PvE specific implants
• Tradeskill implants

There is of course some overlap, like on the Balance Advancer line and in other places.
Mixed implants have both a main-skill and sub-skill bonus, but both are lower than a pure one so the total effect is the same.
Experimental implants and PAs offer pure-level bonuses to both, but have a drawback.

The intention is that a player with, for example, +10 main-skill and a player with +5 main-skill and a given higher amount of sub-skills have an equally viable setup. The higher damage from the higher TL weapon is offset by having something lower elsewhere.
So the process for choosing a set might be (as a generalisation):

• Choose a weapon you want to use, or a TL range you want to reach.
• Acquire the main-skill necessary.
• Fill in the rest with sub-skill or armour increasing implants.

The higher the TL of the weapon, the less sub-skills and vise versa.

Hopefully that's given you an insight into what on earth is going on with all the changes.

[Morekai]

From what it looks like it seems as if you have taken a good deal of inspiration from my suggestion regarding implants. I'm very glad to see this. Guess I'll have to get me access to the testserver and take a look myself. ^^ For now Thank you, Bragi, for this piece of information.

[Divide]

Urge to flame new values is overwhelming. I need to spend more time looking before I blow my brains out.

Is there a list of the new items and their values so players can do some pencil/paper setups while killing productive work hours?

[Divide]

Hysterics aside - Genotoxic armor is now pointless.

[Bragi]

Hysterics aside - Genotoxic armor is now pointless.

Reasons? Armour values? Types of armour? Main/sub-skills?
Compare them with the other PAs and suits rather than what's on retail.

[Divide]

Reasons? Armour values? Types of armour? Main/sub-skills?
Compare them with the other PAs and suits rather than what's on retail.

Armor types and sub-skills.

Pointless was a bad choice of words, but it was close. It basically boils down to reduced subskill contributions and the decision not to include xray resist. If you are running a spy build without xray resist in your PA/underwear slot, you are running a setup that might take 5% less damage from poi/fir, but it will take 25% or more damage from xray. The current armor resist curve doesn't truly encourage players to have extremely high armor resist values for any purpose be it pvp or pve.

[Morekai]

There is one thing regarding armor that I have been thinking about lately: Encumbrance.

The idea is simple enough: In theory everyone should be able to wear every piece of regular armor. However, those who lack the physical strength for it - Spies for example - are weighed down by it (by means of reduced AGI, ATL and movement speed even below zero). This drawback would be scaled based on the difference between the required strength and the strength they have. It does, however, not keep them from putting on that armor.

The idea is to further increase diversity. Do I want my spy or PE to deal maximum damage, or do i want my character to be as tanky as possible - albeit at a cost?

[DomeOfTerror]

Tried some of the new stuff, need to spend more time with it
before I can make a valid comment but I would like to ask one
thing.

Why are those new PAs such awful colors ?

I saw one lavender colored and the Jug PA for HC was pinkish red...

Nice to see new colors, it really is, but the choices are not my favorites.

[Bragi]

Why are those new PAs such awful colors ?

I saw one lavender colored and the Jug PA for HC was pinkish red...

Nice to see new colors, it really is, but the choices are not my favorites.

The problem is that the colour mechanism that gave us yellow, red and blue PAs in the past is getting old. The lighting system lowers the colour when the model is lit, showing more of the basic texture's original light grey colour. Unless you are a decent distance from anything other than ambient light, you end up looking lavender or pink instead of purple or red.

[DomeOfTerror]

The problem is that the colour mechanism that gave us yellow, red and blue PAs in the past is getting old. The lighting system lowers the colour when the model is lit, showing more of the basic texture's original light grey colour. Unless you are a decent distance from anything other than ambient light, you end up looking lavender or pink instead of purple or red.

Alas, tis most unfortunate.

Lavender and pink we shall be !!!

Still great to see new colors and continued development.

Thanks for replying.

[Hackebeil]

Beside the point that i like colours, im worried about the impact.
As an example:

I would never focus a red tank first in opfights if this patch goes live.
This makes it to easy to point out focus targets and play more effectiv based on the pa colours.

The type of armour always tells something about the general charakter setup.
Not he best idea to tell everyone hey i got so much resis you dont need to focus me...
Would make it nonsene to have resis at all...

[OLD No.7 BrAnD]

The type of armour always tells something about the general charakter setup.

Agreed! Dont like the idea of coloured PA's either for the same reason. Just make them even colourwise and let the people colorize them on their own via the outfitter. So no information is given to the enemy, which makes it harder to counter or copy a certain setup.

[LeoPump]

Just make them even colourwise and let the people colorize them on their own via the outfitter.

This! ^;^
And /agree to Hackebeil.

[Faid]

I just want a white woc PA with blue trim for my woc PPU

[CMaster]

I know I'm nothing to do with this any more but:

Hallelujah! Someone is finally taking the fascinatingly nuanced and powerful skill/implant/armour system in NC and making it useful for actually developing setups.