Any love for some negative SL gameplay?

[Alduin]

To remind you: be kind and polite to each other! A fresh look on things is always good and very much appreciated. Sometimes the more you get used to something, the longer you had to deal with it, the easier it is to miss some of the shortcomings of the system which new players might stumble across.

If the community wants to take the initiative and work out together a complete and fleshed out proposal, then start to do so

Either way, the upcoming content patch (the one following the bugfix patch on wednesday) will finally deliver some long overdue stuff

[Divide]

Saadow, while articulate, intelligent, and an obvious excellent new member to the community, has no skin in this game now, or plans to in the future. His contributions, while valued, only affect people who remove their LE, something he has declared he will never do.

If someone was never going to ride a motorcycle, would you take recommendations from them as you were designing it? Why would that person even care to contribute in the first place?


As for the community review of the SL system, I would love to see that take place and may have some time to facilitate.

[saadow]

Fairly Divide, I certainly would. Were I in the role of design, I would want an opinion from the individual without any intention to ride a motorcycle, because my goal as a designer is to design something for as broad of an audience as possible, within the confines of the scope of the design itself. If I wanted to design a motorcycle, I would want my motorcycle to be so good and enticing, that someone who had no intention of riding it, would reconsider their position.

Now you brought up an interesting question, why would that person want to contribute? Were I looking for opinions, and found someone disinterested in riding a motorcycle, my approach would be to ask them why they aren't interested in riding a motorcycle, their opinion could be something to consider in the scope of design.

You'll have outliers, individuals with no interest what-so-ever with riding a motorcycle for example. They still may have interesting ideas, worth listening to if they're willing to provide them. So lets look back at PVP? I had a conversation with some people after hours on the IRC server, and I had said, the only thing I'd really consider removing my LE for would be fighting off players in hacknet, it's the environment I care about in my interests of the game. I feel you could empathize with that, as you're a player interested in fighting other players. You have a vested interest then in that system, like I have one in the hacknet system. The two could potentially intersect, especially if we develop more systems that appeal to broader player-base and bring more individuals into the game.

However, I'm also a roleplayer, and any decision that affects the soullight system, the ease of playerkilling, and the locations where playerkilling occurs, will affect me as a character and as a player. If I see violence in the street, I'm going to react, in a broad range of manners. Example: I was exploring the outzone--something I totally plan on writing a post about--and down several levels in, a hostile, high-level NPC began to attack me. I took cover, and I played the scenario out in my head. Finally, I took the initiative and fought back. This kind of scenario is not unsimilar to what might happen in PVP, except the AI and human intelligence are vastly different things. Now, not being interested in player killing, scenarios where players are gunning down each other in the city regions because it were easier, or the soullight system were more forgiving, I'd have to react to that kind of situation. I don't want that to be easier though. I see the amount of copbot presence in these areas and feel that it would be very difficult for someone to not be seen or known considering the level of surveillance technology. I could understand if perhaps in outskirt sectors if the loss in general were more forgiving, because you'd expect violent crime there. I feel that the few who benefit from the situation would be greatly outweighed by the people who would use the system just to make for violence wherever they go.

[Divide]

Perhaps I should have asked a question from a realm I am a bit more knowledgeable as to set the proper scope. I just about asked the question before realizing- who cares.

Not every designer creates something for a broad audience. Some designers create things for a very small audience with very specific needs. They focus on the needs of those whom commissioned them to ensure their resulting product is the proper fit.

Of course, everyone's desire, in the end, is to bring new blood in to the game. Players need new players as much as the game needs new players as much as the devs need new players.

On that note-
Devs know, as the community does, that there are a large collection of players at bay with this game who are patiently waiting for the right time. SL is a factor, and they are clued in.
This game has significant work due to deliver a proper experience which draws a broad player base in. This goes well beyond the soullight system, which would have to be part of the rework no matter how you slice the cake. Improving the systems you have for the players you have is a strong investment in your foundation while you are planning your future.


As an individual with your LE permanently installed, you have no personal stake in the soullight system as we are discussing it. As an individual who identifies themselves as a role player, you have now have immunity in argument. It is unfortunate that the senseless slaying of players in zones you could find yourself in may create such a broad range of reactions that, who knows, you may actually get up and slap yo momma if it gets so bad. That is an unfortunate affliction. It is your gameplay experience, and ours shouldn't impact it in any way at all. Unless you want it to.

On the other hand, think of all of the post-worthy content if you took that stupid thing out of your head and played the other 50% of the game. Talk to Dribble Joy, he runs an RP clan called The Skulls- unless memory fails or something has changed.





btw@Alduin: We're looking forward to these patches. Keep em' comin'

[saadow]

Well, I'll fairly devils advocate against myself, as you've taken a step in my direction, I can at the very least do the same for you. I'm sure there are times, just like when the high-level NPC and I had our run-in, and it developed story, that story can develop from conflict with other players as well. However, things can be lost, irreplaceable or difficult to replace belongings can be lost in these conflicts. People can abuse this system and do it with the purposeful intent to damage my enjoyment of this game. I'm not interested in exposing myself to those people, I'm here to have fun, and the few times where combat could be a viable situation to involve myself in, I see combat as being a clumsy arms race. If you aren't a combat-perfect character, your options for viability in a situation against people who eat-breathe-sleep this situation are just not viable. You'd get squashed. I've seen people also abuse the combat system.

What I like is that we've come to a point of agreement, so if I take a step forward, I'll say this: If I could reinstall my LE after level */30, I'd have no reason -not- to take part in the occasional fight if the storyline took it up to bat. Fairly, I feel that should also mean clans should have an option to allow players with an LE chip if they so chose to, as a setting they can change at will, so long as that's a feasible feature for management to include.

So what we have here is a combination of optimal systems, a person can chose when and where they want to expose themselves to murder, people who already made that election gain the ability to go back on their decision, they could stop fighting for a while if they want to socialize, or run quests without risk of injury or loss. Players can avoid losing vital equipment if they're out questing, unless they chose to for the interest of fighting again, and then any improvements to the soullight system would truly be for anybody, opening the floor up again and returning us back to the topic.

I at that point, can share your frustration with someone abusing the soullight system to completely ruin another players experience, just like I wouldn't want mine ruined by taking out my chip and being completely vulnerable to others whims. Because even if I put my chip back in, had I killed someone already and went into such a steep decline in soullight, regaining it is very very difficult!

Edit: same here, Alduin! Though off topic, I can't wait to see the stuff you guys do!