[R#186] T#186-T#197 Patch Discussion

[Dasore]

Drones like the GAL/Plasma and Particles do too much dmg, around 90 on player per shot. Rator doesnt do any dmg.
35 heal per tick on a ppu is a bit too weak, i cant even counterheal any weapon above tl 70 with shields.
Melee tank pvp dmg seems too high, no aim, insane range and no speed malus.

Some weapons like plasmapistols/rifles do like no dmg to shielded players and against unshielded they rip ya in pieces.
Pulslaser Rifles like Disruptor scale too much with riflecombat, at around 200 riflecombat the dmg is okay, but as soon as you reach 250 it does way too much

[Dasore]

Alduin can we just all meet on Vedeena at a certain time and talk bout whats wrong/needs changes? Would be much easier for all of us to exatly find out whats still bugged or what people think needs to be changed.

Nerf the Speedmalus when legs broken....

[Bragi]

Some weapons like plasmapistols/rifles do like no dmg to shielded players and against unshielded they rip ya in pieces.

Could we get some numbers?

Pulslaser Rifles like Disruptor scale too much with riflecombat, at around 200 riflecombat the dmg is okay, but as soon as you reach 250 it does way too much

Is this isolated to just pulse lasers?

Again some numbers would be good. Especially with a different weapon of similar TL and the same subskill values.
Also, was this against a healing char? One possible issue with the way heals work is that they reduce DPM by a fixed amount, rather than a proportion like shields do.

Eg. Lets say you are healing at 5 dps. A weapon does 6 dps. You increase your skills and are now doing 7 dps. The effective dps has doubled. A constructed example, but you can see that the proportions can get skewed.
It also presents a problem for low-dpm/high-resist players compared to high-dpm/low-resist ones as the former may simply be unable to hurt someone or just far too ineffective to bother with.

But all of that is a separate issue.

The shape of the subskill-to-performance curve is something we want to look at. At least in the highlighted case above sub-skills are having a noticeable impact - unlike on retail. A change of 50 is a lot though.

[Powerpunsh]

Just made a short PVE run on my HC Tank to check weapondamage in PVE. You cut it pretty half.

Weapon: Ravager radio modded
Victim: Hopper
Retailserver
-Damage: 285
-Frequency: 100/min

Testserver
-Damage 205
-Frequency: fixed at 56/min

Damage is way too low in my opinion. I know you want to get rare and nonrare closer to each other in PVP but in PVE it should still be an advantage so carry high DPS weapons to reach WoC in a proper time.

[Alduin]

In general, since my availability online varies a lot lately (I am moving), I need as much information on the forums as possible. Youtube videos would also be great to demonstrate things.

[Massaker]

It's really sad that only a dozen of people are activily testing and giving feedback.
What about the rest of the community?
I already hear the voices that say: "this is not the balancing that I agree with". And this are the people who think: "let them do what they want. It will be the same crap as in the latest deployed balancing".
But there will be any changes if you don't start to test. So c'mon get on the test server and try to level a new charakter, fight each other or go in the high level caves

At the moment there is not much time for me to test because there is too many work in the company on my desk. If I have more time I'll continue the testing

[Drachenpaladin]

It's really sad that only a dozen of people are activily testing and giving feedback.
What about the rest of the community?
I already hear the voices that say: "this is not the balancing that I agree with". And this are the people who think: "let them do what they want. It will be the same crap as in the latest deployed balancing".
But there will be any changes if you don't start to test. So c'mon get on the test server and try to level a new charakter, fight each other or go in the high level caves

QFT! Verily!

[Dasore]

Its really sad when you wait on the testserver for someone to log and try something out.

95% of the com i ask on titan to test something with me on vedenna just tells me to fuck off cause they say the devs will not change what they want
4% log on the testserver, kills 1 or 2 mobs, flames afterwards ingame that everything is shit and why they change it that way and not that.... but dont want to write something in the forums. falk you will know who i m talking bout for example

and then there is 1 last percent of the com that logs on the server from time to time and also tests something, writes down what they think on the forums.

I also didnt do much testing the last week cause i had much to do, and it looks like none else did either

[Alduin]

On the melee side of things: so if I got it correctly, it looks like melee weapons are far too easy to aim and therefore the "effective" dpm is relatively high, right?

I got two proposals: the first would be to "just" lower the overall dpm of melee weapons to be equal to HC weapons or a few percent below that. The second one would be to introduce an aiming correction similar to the APU. What do you guys think?

[jj dynomite]

On the melee side of things: so if I got it correctly, it looks like melee weapons are far too easy to aim and therefore the "effective" dpm is relatively high, right?

I got two proposals: the first would be to "just" lower the overall dpm of melee weapons to be equal to HC weapons or a few percent below that. The second one would be to introduce an aiming correction similar to the APU. What do you guys think?

It makes sense to have an overall weaker but a guaranteed hit when it comes to melee.Give the runner a reason to actually run in to PVP with their sword drawn.

[Artricia.]

been testing out the drones damage. check it out.

kept RCL to 147, to keep inline with some apu testing i've been doing with arthego. had to adjust the willpower from 87 to 89 on the higher end drones though.

also keep in mind DPM is still a questionable formula.


drones-vedeenatest-7-1-2014 release 6.xlsx


cheers guys!

[Doc Holliday]

The second one would be to introduce an aiming correction similar to the APU. What do you guys think?

This one. Aiming reticle being forced to close would be akin to your opponent blocking, parrying or otherwise dodging to avoid an intended blow. The melee user has to aim and land his strike carefully. This is supposed to be a fight in a post apocalyptic world between two battle hardened combatants not two drunk chavs windmilling each other outside a kebab house in Middlesborough.

[Alduin]

been testing out the drones damage. check it out.

kept RCL to 147, to keep inline with some apu testing i've been doing with arthego. had to adjust the willpower from 87 to 89 on the higher end drones though.

also keep in mind DPM is still a questionable formula.


drones-vedeenatest-7-1-2014 release 6.xlsx


cheers guys!

Hi atricia,

a bold +1 for all the data collected (forum mods would probably kill me for a huge +1 ) This looks promising, in case you alter the dpm formula to be the correct one It should be: =SUMMENPRODUKT(T2*K2) You do not need to multiply it by the burst count, because that is already "absorbed" in the tooltip's shot frequency. Only the raptor seems to be off by a considerably huge amount. The AoE drones are also not yet AoE corrected, which is weird. Have to investigate that.

Any other issues spotted so far?

[Artricia.]

Hi atricia,

a bold +1 for all the data collected (forum mods would probably kill me for a huge +1 ) This looks promising, in case you alter the dpm formula to be the correct one It should be: =SUMMENPRODUKT(T2*K2) You do not need to multiply it by the burst count, because that is already "absorbed" in the tooltip's shot frequency. Only the raptor seems to be off by a considerably huge amount. The AoE drones are also not yet AoE corrected, which is weird. Have to investigate that.

Any other issues spotted so far?

hey alduin! thanks for the +1! woot!

I have adjusted my spreadsheet with the new DPM calculation......Thanks for the fix! Was never sure on shot freq taking burstrate into account...when i did that when i was testing the CS, the DPM on paper seemed low but the damage while testing seemed much higher. Maybe it was just bias, who knows?

Hmmm.... So. Few things i noticed.

1)The rocket drones seem better to aim but still pretty crazy. Are RGCs meant to always have better aiming? Not complaining, just curious.

2)With adjusted formula, the overal DPM on mosquito vs punisher....the mosquito is a full 25% more damage at equal TL.. Intended?

3)Devastator ion + Raging weasel. Devils breath + exp ion nuke. tech angels prototype ion + experimental ion blaster......all drones that are identical in both TL, range, damage, everything. Perhaps we could change one of the two on each pair, perhaps make a new drone type? or maybe make one do higher damage at lower shot freq? Seems like a waste to have 2 different drones do the same damage, just my opinion though!

4) kami's blast radius seemed a bit small, perhaps a slight buff?

5) the weapon range on alllllllll of the drones is super short. Like damn. A drone that could outrange and therefore take on warbots would be awesome, but maybe could be asking for too much.

6)All in all the drones seem to fairly scale in damage fairly evenly minus the raptor. Good stuff!

[Artricia.]

retested raptor..false alarm, doing 41 damage per shot now....in line with other drones. my bad!