[R#186] T#186-T#197 Patch Discussion

**Dasore** · 22-05-14, 22:29

Originally Posted by BlueRobot

I meant the reason for that change. If every weapon is automatically balanced by its TL then the change should have no effect at all or horribly break the dissi.

before i explain it wrong... let alduin do his job

**Dropout** · 23-05-14, 00:02

Originally Posted by BlueRobot

I meant the reason for that change. If every weapon is automatically balanced by its TL then the change should have no effect at all or horribly break the dissi.

To "mainstream" Dissy to its non-rare counterpart.
This was a change wanted by the community (and IMO a great change).

**slith** · 23-05-14, 14:01

Originally Posted by walkman

* TL 70 Cleansing Flamethrower deals much much more damage then TL 96 WoC Backup Gun. Especially, flamer's stacks deals around 30+ damage vs 8-10 on WoC pistol... 2-3 x tl 70 flamer's stacks eats on my PE (39 fire own resi + 87 on armor) 150+ health in 5 seconds. This is an ultimate weapon on HC PE now.

Yup, maybe a tad to much. Then again its even harder to use than devo..

Originally Posted by walkman

* Anti-energy, anti-fire, anti-xray and possible anti-poison tl 24-30 spells heals 300+ per tick.

Leave me my toy!

(Alduin told me its fixed already)

I dont really mind my invincible, reviving HC pe with TL70 Imbaflamer.. fun times. The only thing it cant outheal is a Devourer that hits every shot

**walkman** · 23-05-14, 16:22

Originally Posted by slith

Then again its even harder to use than devo..

Dont tell me this, because its just works. You think you are able escape with broken legs? You think that tank is very-very slow? Just keep short distance and shoot in back of enemy. Very hard to use, yes. This is why it deals 30+ dmg per tick. While time cast of spell around 7 seconds vs 8 seconds on stack. This is equals to 7 seconds x 30 dmg per tick = 210 dmg and 30 dmg will be removed (on success) via spell. OR you may stop/open inventory and use antifire drug in that time you will get 2+ another stacks. OR dont use spells shields, dont use stealth, dont use paratemol/desterol/etc really usefull drugs and keep only 9 antifire/antipoison drugs on belt.

I will be glad to hear how many deals arti-dev on stacks. 50 dmg per tick? Or 100? And why TL 96 pistol deals only 8 dmg?

**Tino** · 23-05-14, 17:33

I was the first person on this thread to say dissy should be changed to 3 burst...Your Welcome

**Alduin** · 24-05-14, 16:46

The reason for the Disruptor change was to bring it in line with all the other puleslaser rifles and to force players to have to aim more often when using the disruptor.

R#186 - T#194 - Release Candidate Three has been released! Please have a look at the patch notes thread. The APU finally received some additional love, although I have to admit that I accidentaly forgot to move one of the spells, but the next and hopefully final iteration will include it. Something which still needs a look are drones, as well as low frequency weapons like the ionic shotguns or the silent hunter.

In my opinion the damage over time of a flamethrower should be the largest because it burns you which really hurts and hurts a larger area of your body.

So the cast times of the antidote spells is too long, right?

We are getting closer so keep it up guys!

**Ascension** · 24-05-14, 23:39

Originally Posted by Alduin

The reason for the Disruptor change was to bring it in line with all the other puleslaser rifles and to force players to have to aim more often when using the disruptor.

R#186 - T#194 - Release Candidate Three has been released! Please have a look at the patch notes thread. The APU finally received some additional love, although I have to admit that I accidentaly forgot to move one of the spells, but the next and hopefully final iteration will include it. Something which still needs a look are drones, as well as low frequency weapons like the ionic shotguns or the silent hunter.

In my opinion the damage over time of a flamethrower should be the largest because it burns you which really hurts and hurts a larger area of your body.

So the cast times of the antidote spells is too long, right?

We are getting closer so keep it up guys!

I've just logged onto verdeena and APU spells are still 32 freq, arguably APU spells should dot, I logged my APU and fired at the target range using apoc, and then switched to my tank with the devourer, why would apoc not dot and and the dev do? also the anti spells don't seem to have switched over, only 1 has, the rest still require PPU

**Dasore** · 25-05-14, 09:42

Why is the nanite injector healing equal to a psi heal at that techlevel? shouldnt it be much lower heal/min cause of:

1. you can use both nanite tools at onces, tl 14 and tl 40.
2. highest heal pe/spys can use is the tl 10 anyway, so already lower than the tl 14 tool.
3. no casttime
4. you dont need a glove and psi points to use the tools, so you can spec psi resist and use a dex glove for higher weapons.

in my optionion it should be tl 14 tool < tl 3 heal < tl 40 tool < tl 10 heal
i havent test it, i just read it in the notes and wanted to write it down to test later when i m back

**tarasm** · 25-05-14, 10:36

the heal tools stack on your screen, show the healing in the damage log but still heal the same amount as a normal tl40 heal tool solo. test it out

**walkman** · 25-05-14, 15:03

Originally Posted by Alduin

In my opinion the damage over time of a flamethrower should be the largest because it burns you which really hurts and hurts a larger area of your body.

In my opinion the WoC pistol must be acceptable. You got that pistol after completing the one of hardest/longest quests in the game. Even in PvE this pistol shows worst DPS/DPM. Any non-rare pistol deals much more damage then it. What is point to complete the quest? To get ultimate rifles, right! Remove this pistol entire of game. The pistol shames balance team work.

Think about against what or who pistol was created. Against tank? LOL. Against spy? LOL. Against APU? LOL. PPU? Double LOL. For PvE? Triple LOL. Even on mobs if you have no misses and release full pack then total ticks deals max 100 dmg. Funny. TL 70 flamer on mob in shooting range deals own 296 dmg + 30 dmg per tick of one stack. Pistol on same mob deals around 150 dmg and tick 8 deals dmg. TL 70 vs TL 96. Funny.

Keep in mind the fact that pistol deals only piercing damage type. And this pistol is not sub-machine gun. Yes, pistol's shot. frequency is pretty fast. And so? In PvP no one able to shoot non-stop with 100% headshots in 3 seconds. Untill target dont move, of course. Heal spells and heal tools heals you up to 16 hp per tick. So, I need to put in your head 2 bullets to disable your heal. And one more bullet to deal 8 dmg per tick. FUNNY.

Originally Posted by Alduin

So the cast times of the antidote spells is too long, right?

Try yourlself. Keep 150 hp. Get 1-2 stacks from TL 70 flamer and try to cast spell. If you survive then balance is perfect. Dont forget to run, with broken legs. Dont forget to cover somewhere. Simulate real PvP situation.

---

UPDATE

How to balance such tools?

The target. In this case these spells usefull for apu (hybrid?), PE and PPU.

Penalties versus drusg:

* PSI cost. Monks already have a lot of PSI energy. In the same time monks spend your energy on combat spells too. PEs usually does not have a lot of PSI energy, they should keep max WEP and PPU/FCS/PPW. My PE able to have 60 or maximum 70 PSI energy. So, I can use maximum 2-3 antidote spells.

* Time cost. There are two things and I said about them above.

** Cast time vs stack time. Currently, 6-7 seconds on cast vs 8 seconds on stack is NOT acceptable.

** Cast time vs drugs. The game is old. In the WoW we have multi-tabbed belt. There is no such. APU/PPU and PEs cant keep belt full of antidot drugs. Also, we need stop and drug-and-drop drugs after they used. Basically, to use drug from inventory I spend about 3 seconds. When battle is hot possible much more. Using from inventory has huge penalty: dont move. Using drug from belt penalty: hotkey's cost.

What is time for casting spell should be?

Spell's penalties:

* Hotkey
* Casting time
* PSI energy

Think yourself. Spell should help me. And does not work against me. I pay big price to use spell already. Time is not such thing that decides everything.

**Dasore** · 25-05-14, 16:15

Originally Posted by walkman

Think about against what or who pistol was created. Against tank? LOL. Against spy? LOL. Against APU? LOL. PPU? Double LOL. For PvE? Triple LOL. Even on mobs if you have no misses and release full pack then total ticks deals max 100 dmg. Funny. TL 70 flamer on mob in shooting range deals own 296 dmg + 30 dmg per tick of one stack. Pistol on same mob deals around 150 dmg and tick 8 deals dmg. TL 70 vs TL 96. Funny.

yeah that woc weapon is probably a bit too low... but stop the loling

pistol does pretty good against everything atm, if you dont just try the woc one. i would recommend ya to switch the LOL with L2P. Ur faster with pistol than every other weapon except psi users, but they are also even more fragile and the aim closes so fast on pistols, flamer are a pain in the ass to aim, so they need higher damage. Its a question of skill when all the weapons are finally really good balanced. And dont forget its still on testserver... so no decision is made.

Originally Posted by walkman

Try yourlself. Keep 150 hp. Get 1-2 stacks from TL 70 flamer and try to cast spell. If you survive then balance is perfect. Dont forget to run, with broken legs. Dont forget to cover somewhere. Simulate real PvP situation.

what class are we talking about? stop talking bout casttimes of crahn antispells for pe, they were never used in pvp and the only one useable/that would make sence on pe anyway is the crahn antifire... no more words bout that.

Originally Posted by walkman

* PSI cost. Monks already have a lot of PSI energy. In the same time monks spend your energy on combat spells too. PEs usually does not have a lot of PSI energy, they should keep max WEP and PPU/FCS/PPW. My PE able to have 60 or maximum 70 PSI energy. So, I can use maximum 2-3 antidote spells.

look above

Originally Posted by walkman

* Time cost. There are two things and I said about them above.

** Cast time vs stack time. Currently, 6-7 seconds on cast vs 8 seconds on stack is NOT acceptable.

The casttime of that spells decreases at higher tls of the spell, holy one is 4 secs.

Originally Posted by walkman

** Cast time vs drugs. The game is old. In the WoW we have multi-tabbed belt. There is no such. APU/PPU and PEs cant keep belt full of antidot drugs. Also, we need stop and drug-and-drop drugs after they used. Basically, to use drug from inventory I spend about 3 seconds. When battle is hot possible much more. Using from inventory has huge penalty: dont move. Using drug from belt penalty: hotkey's cost.

Dont want to repeat myself again, but thats what neocron is about, the skill and knowlege of the game when to use drugs or if you dont use one for that stack, when to refill the belt and what to keep in belt. As you were talking bout pe all the time, refill the belt in stealth, usually you can do 5-7 slots in that few seconds, if not? Train it and become better, i ll ask tino to make a how to refill my belt in combat vid on yt for ya

**Dasore** · 25-05-14, 16:16

Originally Posted by tarasm

the heal tools stack on your screen, show the healing in the damage log but still heal the same amount as a normal tl40 heal tool solo. test it out

Thanks for that info. Anyway, psi heals need more heal than tools that dont need anything. Like i wrote above

**walkman** · 25-05-14, 16:28

Originally Posted by Dasore

Ur faster with pistol than every other weapon except psi users, but they are also even more fragile and the aim closes so fast on pistols, flamer are a pain in the ass to aim, so they need higher damage. Its a question of skill when all the weapons are finally really good balanced. And dont forget its still on testserver... so no decision is made.

Faster? With pistol?! Who have 100 CON and able to put in athletics 120+ points? Just be fastest, then open fire with ultimate flamer. No one able to escape with broken legs. No one able to remove 5 stacks in 1 second. What is point to create ultimate weapon for class with best speed in the game? There are no such weapon which deals a lot damage on tank. No such. Because tanks have best armor. Best resists. Able be fastest.

Originally Posted by Dasore

what class are we talking about? stop talking bout casttimes of crahn antispells for pe, they were never used in pvp and the only one useable/that would make sence on pe anyway is the crahn antifire... no more words bout that.

And now they possible be useful. Okey.jpg. Remove these spells entire the game and question will be closed.

Also, I had tested all things above with HC PE. Which able to rezz. Rezz!!!

Originally Posted by Dasore

refill the belt in stealth, usually you can do 5-7 slots in that few seconds, if not? Train it and become better, i ll ask tino to make a how to refill my belt in combat vid on yt for ya

Are you kidding? Fire stack puts on you amazing visual effects! What is reason to use stealth if anyone able to see where are you? Much more. To use stealth you spend 1-2 seconds. To run away one more a few seconds. Meanwhile stack will kill you.

Dont post stupid videos from Titan, there are broken stacks. Put your videon from Vedeena

---

My PEs belt for duels/pair:

1. Gun
2. Stealth
3. Heal spell
4. Deflector
5. Absorber
6. Protector
7. Pistol boost OR antidote fire?!
8. Paratemol OR antidote fire?!
9. Redflash OR antidote poison?!
0. Stamina booster OR antidote poison?!

With 2 injectors situation will be much funny. This setup is NOT for OP fights, sure. So, in that case you should say DONT fight, just run away. Because PE in duels is nothing. Even with right hands. Great!

Or, dont use any spells. Dont get 7-8% resi from spells. Sure. Great balance!

Looks like there are all experts, which can only use cheats, bugs and expoit the game in all holes. What is reason to keep such wide plot of things? Remove all useless things. Let's start from removing low level spells from PE.

**walkman** · 25-05-14, 17:38

In the end.

All games rely on how hands of player are good. In this game one class so easy in control that even with hands from an ass you will win almost always. Sad.

This is because I had leaved the game. This is pointless to play in mythical Role-Player-Game. There are only one correct role: tank. Tank with best armors. Tank with best weapons. Tank with best speed. Tank with better aiming than pistol. Dont you believe in that? Try yourself, from start to end game. Well, heavy weapons should miss a lot (or I believed in that), at least they should miss more then pistols. There is vice versa. Even in middle of game a heavy weapon misses less then any pistol. Heavy weapons deals much more damage then any pistol. Heavy weapons has better range then any pistol. Aiming speed you say? Its almost the same for all types of weapons. Especially in close range combat, i.e. 100% aim in 1-1.5 second.

What is reason to play as P-C char? Only one, the pain in you ass. If you want sado-mazo playgame then choose pistol combat. That's so called role-play.

So, useless spells shows you how bad balance is. The idea was to create wide range of possible builds/setups. Now, even PE should look like a tank. Yes, dont use spells. Yes, use only drugs as tank does. Sad.

Why we have wide range of setups? Let's remove all useless chips and create 4 playable setups for each class. PE able to rezz? Impossible! Remove all abillities to do that! PE able to remove stack via spell? Ridicules. Remove that ability either. PE able to use HC? Fantastish! Only tank must use heavy weapons. And so on.

**Dasore** · 25-05-14, 18:24

okay that can only cause a big lol of my side,
have you ever played with a flamer for example? same aimspeed as pistol? no way.
if your flamer aims that fast, plz send me your dev files

viable setups for pvp? i can at least give ya 10 setups for pe i already tried at vedenna.
used weapons: pot/ttepic/plasma wave/xbow/rolh/libi/wyat/tsu epic/desperado/rog with and without psi setup.

why tank got the most con and best armor? cause they cant stealth? no pvp subskills like hacking?
tank the fastest class? run with your weapon pulled and tell me that again.
120+ athletics... plz stop trolling, thats no con setup that is total crap, no resists?

Leveling as pistol is the same as with hc, you just approach the fight a bit different, raypistols at regant, rocket pistols in crp caves, beam pistols/plasmas vs warbots, firemobs. i dont see any problem.

what implants are useless? the only real useless onces are probably the +X con chips, that moveon/marine needs rebalancing is true, same with the psi implants.

Walker	John Gotti
Sammy the Bull	Danish Rage
Innocent Bystander	Walking Waste
Sweet Judgement	Sweet Vengeance

Thread: [R#186] T#186-T#197 Patch Discussion

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