[R#179] Runspeed Discussion

[Satan2k2]

The Patch Discussion thread is full with off topic and the runspeed is clearly a suggestion, so I will start a thread here.

Feel free to post all you mind about the runspeed.

My opinion is, that the runspeed should have a cap again, cause it frees some skillpoints for other skills. The fights won't take shorter or longer, but you can spend some points to hlt or more resists in CON and in DEX you can do other things, too.

[nabbl]

Thx Satan.

Yes I think the same. We did some duels yesterday. The runspeed is really to high in order to make things funny. Lowtech-Tanks and Spies are the best PvP-Characters just because they are ultra fast.
APUs put zero points on resist and just spec 100 ATL base.
Everything is about speed. Aiming gets more difficult. The leveldesign of neocron isn't meant to maintain such a high runspeed.

Voting for a "softcapp" ...

[Satan2k2]

Maybe we can change the thread to a poll with discussion, so we can vote on softcap, hardcap or no cap

[The Real Xtro]

I agree too the way things are now you have to have amazing PVP skills to hit anything smaller than a barn door the game needs to be able to be played by people with average pvp skills doing so will make sure that those with leet skills have lots of cannon fodder.

[slith]

Agility less effect on runspeed.

Hits the classes most that need to be hit. Maybe too much impact on HC/TC Tanks, as I feel they balance out runspeed/dodging/resists perfectly now.

[Praetorian]

I strongly disagree on nerfing runspeed without balancing the entire system.

Just to mention 1 thing that ties into it - with the foregin cast buff penalties, certain classes would just become sitting ducks if they didnt have runspeed. APUs would become even less viable and spies would die too fast as they dont have tank/PE resists. This of course would only be even worse without PPU buffs.

If people want the runspeed changed, it should come as a complete overhaul of the entire system. Otherwise it makes no sense.

Ive spent 6+ hours after patch in p2 doing nothing but pvp. I hit people, people hit me. I really dont see the problem.

[Doc Holliday]

It could secretly make the pe more viable

[slith]

Ive spent 6+ hours after patch in p2 doing nothing but pvp. I hit people, people hit me. I really dont see the problem.

Right now PvP is a no go for everyone that didn't grew up with shooters.. You are one of the few who are still able to dish out enough damage to get past the holy heal rate - but most of the players arent.

[nabbl]

Ive spent 6+ hours after patch in p2 doing nothing but pvp. I hit people, people hit me. I really dont see the problem.

Would you see Plaza2 as an example for adjusting runspeed or not?
Did you try the same thing in Jeriko Fortress for example?
Problem is not even that you don't hit each other while both engaged in the fight. The problem is more or less that as soon someone wants to escape he just runs away. And this in an ultra fast manner. You cannot follow nor hit.
It is just awful.

And please think of the people who are new to the game and want to experience some PvP. At the current state they go into an OP-war and get melted down by a lowtech-Ionic-Cannon tank and two AK-spies in two seconds.
There is no fun part in it.
How would you explain the newbies that they have to put every skill point in Athletics and Agility so that they are viable in PvP?

[Netphreak]

Agility less effect on runspeed.

Hits the classes most that need to be hit. Maybe too much impact on HC/TC Tanks, as I feel they balance out runspeed/dodging/resists perfectly now.

But it wouldn't affect H-C/T-C tanks the most.
That would affect Spies the most then PE's.

Tanks only have to spend whatever T-C they need to use a weapon under DEX and then spec the rest in AGL. Their main combat skill comes under STR where they can pretty much put every point of a 100 STR lvl's worth into H-C.
They also have 100 CON and could counter if Agility had less effect on runspeed by simply speccing more ATH.

Spies and PE's have to spec their combat skills, tech combat and part/half of their runspeed (Agility) all from one limited pool.
The reason I say it would affect spies more than PE's is due to PE's having a lot more CON and therefore could counter a Agility having less effect on runspeed by speccing more ATH. Spies however don't have that option due to their low CON cap of 40.


Personally I vote for a 'softcap' the same as we had in NC1/NC2. Also I do feel that weapon aiming/recticle closure rates need looking at to bring them more into line with how they used to be in NC1/NC2 as well.

[Praetorian]

My main point is that if you want to alter runspeed, it needs to be done as a complete balance overhaul.

In the old days you had parashock to slow people down but on the other hand you had no penalties on PPU buffs. Even then the only real viable pvp chars for OP fights where tanks, apus and ppus. (APUs mainly because you needed them for antibuffs). You may be able to find some PEs or the odd spy participating in the OP brawls, but i think you get my point.

Now the game has changed completely. APUs as a class is not viable and not even needed after having their antibuffs taken away. They may be able to keep alive for abit because of their (current) runspeed. Spies can now actually stay alive due to no parashock and high runspeed (40 CON, you cant spec any serious resists with that) while dishing out some serious damage - making them viable. Dont forget a spy could always gtfo because they have stealth - runspeed wont change that. Tanks are, as far as i can tell from fighting them, doing pretty well in general. HC or low tech, doesnt seem to matter alot. Granted the low tech runs faster, but the HC have some pretty good resists going for them. For an example, if a tank shoots an unbuffed spy in the legs once, say with a ravager, the fights basically over. Only takes a handful of shots to kill a spy. Do spies need their runspeed? Most definatly.

As for OP fights, you asked if i did that after patch, no i havent. Before this patch i did go to jerico this weekend and fought. And what do people do? They run around using obstacles/objects/buildings to stay alive. Do you think that would change if you nerfed the runspeed? I truly dont think so. You can still run around a gogo or some boxes - spies will still stealth away. I honestly dont see why runspeed should change that. Especially not if the guy being chased uses other people to dodge behind which always happens when 5-6 people try to kill 1 guy.

Anyway, im an old fart, i definatly do not have the reflexes i had when i played quake back in 1996. And i can still aim and hit stuff so i really have a hard time understanding why people feel the need to nerf runspeed on classes that only stay viable because of it. Just trying to get my point across

[phunqe]

I can appreciate the wish for nerfing the runspeed. Sometimes as a PPU it feels like you are running after a school of fish on crack trying to heal everybody (especially you spies ).

However, as Praetorian said, if this is up for a change you have to look at what will be affected as well. Some depend on the runspeed for survivability, not just to use it for catching up to people or being fast in general.

[slith]

But it wouldn't affect H-C/T-C tanks the most.
That would affect Spies the most then PE's.

And next lowtech tanks. And thats the point - those classes are too fast now. As I said before: HC/TC vs HC/TC Tank feels absolutely perfect now. Others classes should be faster, but not in these dimensions. Speed specced or lowtech spys are rediculous now.

Tanks only have to spend whatever T-C they need to use a weapon under DEX and then spec the rest in AGL. Their main combat skill comes under STR where they can pretty much put every point of a 100 STR lvl's worth into H-C.
They also have 100 CON and could counter if Agility had less effect on runspeed by simply speccing more ATH.

That also reduces their resists and therefor their survivability. Trading resists against runspeed = working as intended. At least in my eyes.

Spies and PE's have to spec their combat skills, tech combat and part/half of their runspeed (Agility) all from one limited pool.
The reason I say it would affect spies more than PE's is due to PE's having a lot more CON and therefore could counter a Agility having less effect on runspeed by speccing more ATH. Spies however don't have that option due to their low CON cap of 40.

PEs are underpowered compared to spys in terms of damage, runspeed and resists anyways, so I don't see a problem there.

The low impact of spy and pe resists is a topic for balancing. They shouldn't be forced to purely spec runspeed. This proposal is mainly for fixing the runspeed issue and providing a base to balance armor/resist/shield efficiency stats around. If you don't see a runspeed issue, you should really play Quake

[Netphreak]

I think a lot of the issue, is down to how fast people can still run with their weapons drawn.
In NC1/NC2 you used to trade off damage (using H-C or Rifles for example) for speed (Melee or Pistols).
Now due to the uncapped runspeed this isn't really a factor anymore. (poor damaage performance of melee and most pistols atm just makes the issue worse)

[Trivaldi]

Maybe we can change the thread to a poll with discussion, so we can vote on softcap, hardcap or no cap

Preferably we would like to see everyone's thoughts and reasoning for change of this magnitude. We do not allow the poll feature to ensure topics are fully discussed and everyone is able to voice their full ideas, suggestions and opinions. The more discussion the better as this allows us to build a true picture of how the community feel about certain issues rather than a simple click of a button which may have little thought behind it.