Regant Bossroom

[Forget My Name]

Everyone wants things easier, and everything handed to them.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I never said I wanted PvE to be easy. I said I want it to be FUN. Big difference between "easy" and "fun".

I find killing fire mobs beyond thier aggro range "easy".

I find killing fire cave mobs with a group of people, especially with a PPU, "fun".

I find killing fire cave mobs alone without a PPU "boring".

I find killing Regants mobs by running around them in circles and dodging the laggy instant kill attacks of crawlers "easy and fun".

I find leveling with anything but a long range shooter or droner "boring, and in most cases, improbable".



I don't mind Regants getting an overhaul, I am all for it, but now is not the time. This is just how I feel, that's all.

[Haxxor]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I never said I wanted PvE to be easy. I said I want it to be FUN. Big difference between "easy" and "fun".
I find killing fire mobs beyond thier aggro range "easy".
I find killing fire cave mobs with a group of people, especially with a PPU, "fun".
I find killing fire cave mobs alone without a PPU "boring".
I find killing Regants mobs by running around them in circles and dodging the laggy instant kill attacks of crawlers "easy and fun".
I find leveling with anything but a long range shooter or droner "boring, and in most cases, improbable".
I don't mind Regants getting an overhaul, I am all for it, but now is not the time. This is just how I feel, that's all.

Honest reply m8.

Overall PvE needs a massive overhaul or at least a big change. I used to love my melee tank in NC1 now it would be suicidal speccing for Melee .

So many cave's for example havent adapted to the changes that have been made to the game. Worm Tunnel's for example aren't used, Swamp Caves have become less used and the Cristal Caves are pretty vacant. They don't suit runners who have come to rely on AoE as the primary means to level. Plus very little is gained is from them them caves.

So i would agree that PvE has become a chore. Personally im constantly gr'ing all over the wastelands to kill stuff as killing the same thing over and over has lost it's appeal.

[Trivaldi]

Just to interject, we are aware of the shortcomings in a number of our intended high level hunting grounds. I'm thinking of ways to address certain areas in the long term as well as very interested to see ideas for different hunting grounds from the community. I will say this; Regant's Legacy does have a number of issues and is miles from what it should be based on the original concept. That, along with many many things, will be addressed in time*.

*When It's Done™

[Forget My Name]

So i would agree that PvE has become a chore. Personally im constantly gr'ing all over the wastelands to kill stuff as killing the same thing over and over has lost it's appeal.

I have tried this, and this is my experience...

"Alright, I am tired of leveling at either El Farid, Fire Caves, Outside Fire Mobs, or Regants. These are the spots I level at normally"


1) Y replicants in the south eastern wasteland sectors.

Their bodies are small, so hitting them at range while they move is pretty improbable. They hit too damn hard once I get close, so fighting up close isn't an option. Oh look, after 5 minutes of hill clipping and zone line hiding, I killed one. Oh, I have to hack it for my reward? NO THANKS.

Too hard to hit, not probable for a single player to farm for "fun", and reward makes it not worth it for non hackers.


2) Hovers covering every sector in the middle of the Wastes.

Giant bodies make them easy to hit across the zone, but they can kill you with near full resists in 2 or 3 hits as a Tank with 1.1k life. I finally killed one due to hiding in a building for 5 minutes... OH great, another mob reaKKtor decided to punish non hackers for killing again. What the fuck is with the original developers making everything end game non friendly to non hackers?

Easy to hit, but will kill you in a few hits, most of the time without an animation. If you do manage to kill one of these after an hour of hiding in a building, unless you have hacking, once again you are denied your reward for playing the game. Not worth it for leveling or looting.


3) Doy Tunnels. You need a group, or be a droner. To get any reward you need to be a hacker, once a fucking again!

Not worth it unless you are a loner droner, or doing clan farming. Also, unless you hack, fuck off, so even if you are in a group, as a non hacker, you just need to trust your team mates.


4) Swamp Caves. Who cares. Used to be fun pre 2.2, but now the mobs just poison and kill you instantly. For once you don't need to hack to get your reward, but no techs drop, shit, nothing good drops.

Not worth it in any circumstance.


5) Point Red like dungeons. Fun! The war soldiers are actually fun to fight against! HIding, ducking, shooting, fun! Oh... The boss drops a shitty rocket launcher I wouldn't pay 50k for a 5 slot version of? No tech drops? Once again, like Poison Caves, a mob you don't need to hack, but you get no reward for.

Fun to do a few times just to say you did it, but the novelty wears off after you realize the boss mob drops shit.


6) Crystal Caves. Biggest issue... Bats are tiny as fuck to hit. They also hit you harder than most fire mobs. Level design actually has spots where you can fall into a pit and you are stuck. You either have to die to the bats that fall down with you, or kill self, or reset position. Bat Queen does drop good loot, but people forget Neocron Melee is the most worthless play style in any mmo currently.

Fun to do for a bit, but once you get your bat queen set, you never go back.


7) Worm Caves. The ones I went into are empty. I don't have any opinion about them.


8) Johnny 5 bots. Found near DOY sectors. Meh... low rank mobs that need to be hacked.

Who cares.


9) Worms. Found near DOY sectors. Pre 2.2 used to be THE leveling monster for high level players. Sticking DOY in the game, moving mobs around, and mingling worms along side Johnny 5 bots, Terror Maulers and out door Soul Clusters makes farming worms a thing of the past.


10) Graves. Used to level in there pre 2.2, but after 2.2, mobs hit to hard to bother.


11) Warbots. I don't hunt these anymore, so no opinion. Need hack anyway, but with the tech drop nerfed, who cares. Probably the one thing rifle users enjoy hunting in the game due to large hit box.




"OOOohhhh..... So now I know why I only level in the following spots..."


1) Regants. Packs of mobs clustered together for wonderful EXP. Unique Mobs found nowhere else in the game, so the mobs feel unique, unlike the 500 hoverbombers spread throughout the wastes.

Fun to farm, and loot worth getting. Can be soloed, so in a low pop game such as Neocron, a spot like this keep high level players in the game who aren't droning in DOPY tunnels, playing. DON'T NEED HACK TO ENJOY REWARDS.


2) Fire Caves. Packs of mobs clustered together for wonderful EXP. Location of CRP Cave makes leveling as a group in neocron a possible thing to do, unlike the rest of the game where solo play is punished.

Easy to farm. Best spot in the game to find groups to play with. Location next to a GR, GOGO and DRT makes it THE best spot in the game to level over all.


3) El Farid. Place for droners to level.


4) Outside Fire Mobs. Probably THE premier way to farm techs if you aren't a hacking droner. Why? You can out range them, and they don't move as fast as other out door mobs... Also, YOU DON'T FUCKING NEED HACK TO ENJOY ENDGAME WITH FIRE MOBS.


Seriously... I remember when NC first came out, and people wanted Hacking to be an important aspect of the game... But shoving hacking into everything makes the game near unplayable. FUCK SHOVING HACK INTO EVERYTHING.

That is why I farm in the same 4 spots for all my classes.



My main problem with PvE in this game is that most end game content requires you to play in a group with a healer, but there are two issues I have found with making Neocron into a WoW Raid Clone...


1) The game naturally attracts self sustaining players. Hate me for saying this, but Neocron attracts people who want to run around and gank people willy nilly, have the best swag and swing the biggest dick. This kind of community does not make for a good grouping community. How many times have I been in Regants/Fire Caves where people refuse to group for Reason X.

Most people just want to level quickly for end game pvp, and slowing their experience for PvE teaming "fun" isn't on the menu.

For an MMO, Neocron is a single player experience.


2) Low population. Simply put, Neocron does not have the amount of players needed to saturate all the end game areas at all times.


So the developers want the PvE content to be Raid-like, but the entire design of the game promotes a single player atmosphere.

The original design of Neocon contradicts what the developers wanted to change Neocron since it's release.

/rant

[William Antrim]

people don't team due to the xp nerf of teaming. You will find this changes with the patch.


Your rant is therefore pretty much resolved as you can team with a hacker/join a clan with a hacker. I have a small handful of friends in my social circle who play nc. We usually go hunting together as a group and we always have a hacker if it is required.

If you are solo there are plenty of places to hunt solo, on every class.

[Forget My Name]

people don't team due to the xp nerf of teaming. You will find this changes with the patch.

I hope that the team exp balance fixes all the issues I have with PvE!!!

Now let me log on my tank, and find a hacker, so I can enjoy end game

[William Antrim]

If people want to team again you will find your fun will rise exponentially as the xp will rise exponentially with it. It doesnt matter where you go as it will be better everywhere.

Then when you have finished having so much fun you will probably find that you have also been patient. In this time of great patience and solace the devs will have had chance to relax a little from their full time jobs and families and be able to work on some other burning issues. No not Christmas with their loved ones, NC for you. It is a much more important issue. As long as PvE is fixed it wont matter if they have to work New Years Eve or get up extra early in the first dawn light of 2013. As long as PvE is fixed. But hey youre still having fun right? Good, ok chief happy with that.

So yeah once that is done you might find some of these other issues also get resolved. Its all about you right. Yeah right on bro. In the meantime instead of ranting how about thinking about some of the other things that you might have looked at and thought of solutions to that someone else missed. Devs are the same as the rest of us. Human. They have opinions, feelings and emotions. We each have our own opinions and some of them are very passionate. That is one of the things that makes this community so great.

However the shortsightedness of some of its members is appalling. Its the "Now let me log on my....." part that gets me. However the money shot is that last line. That's the one that really sold me. Tank. The one class in the game that you REALLY can still solo PLENTY of the content with.

If you had said Pistol pe or rifle spy I might have had some sympathy for you. If you had said APU or pistol spy I would have definitely patted you on the back and shared your moment of grief. But youre whinging about a tank.... I had to laugh my ass off.

Everyone here knows the game isnt fixed. Far from it. Triv even weighed in on the subject you and you got an official comment. Well about as official as the Dev team can be.

Yet still you have to rant.

GG bro. Seriously, nice one.

Thats what they want in the brainport. Rants. Helps to test the game loads and DEFINITELY helps the morale and motivation of the guys trying to fix the game for you.



How about suggesting something more like this for improvements?

What about making mob dispersal related to zone and climate?

Have jonny 5s moved back to the Dome of York and surrounding countryside?

Have just firemobs around the canyon?

Move Y replicants over to the doy areas too and remove the hacking requirement on them?

Put hazard worms et al around the Apparition caves

Have hovers remain ONLY around TH

Basically have areas where mobs spawn, across 9-12 zones or so around the map?

Doy Tunnels - beef up the amount of non hackable mobs (doy soldiers) and decrease the amount of hackable ones - so that everyone can farm and having a hacker is a bonus.


What about boosting the hell out of the uplink bonuses? Like Plus 50 or something so that Uplink Levelling zones suddenly become uber good and highly sought after. I recall in NC1 before the GR rules came in about locking and unlocking we used to go to Northstar uplink and hunt warbots there with the hack bonus and only like one hacking chip and we could pretty much farm all day (on a non hacking char ordinarily). This way even Tanks could level up there and still get rares.

all of these are constructive criticisms and suggestions.

Other than that all i can say is join a clan and level with your clan mates. Theres bound to be some who will recruit still.

[zii]

@OP

I'll keep it short.

Neither routes harm anyone. If you dislike then don't do it.


Long version
There is nothing stopping you enjoying your levelling. If you like run endless cave runs over the next few years then go for it. Enjoy yourself. I have no problem with this

If you want to level your XP quickly, and get involved with PVP and OP wars, then head down Regents a few hundred times. You might go blind in the process, or die from boredom, but the point is to level.

Neither option harms either players' route.
I am wearly of all this, so please grow up.

PS. There are so many other things to do in this game, than the above!

[Netphreak]

Ok, so I've decided to split of your post and give my opinion on some of the specifics you gave.

I have tried this, and this is my experience...

"Alright, I am tired of leveling at either El Farid, Fire Caves, Outside Fire Mobs, or Regants. These are the spots I level at normally"

1) Y replicants in the south eastern wasteland sectors.

Their bodies are small, so hitting them at range while they move is pretty improbable. They hit too damn hard once I get close, so fighting up close isn't an option. Oh look, after 5 minutes of hill clipping and zone line hiding, I killed one. Oh, I have to hack it for my reward? NO THANKS.

Too hard to hit, not probable for a single player to farm for "fun", and reward makes it not worth it for non hackers.

I think this is another example of mobs seemingly being able to instantly target you, dealing far too much damage per hit and having huge range.

2) Hovers covering every sector in the middle of the Wastes.

Giant bodies make them easy to hit across the zone, but they can kill you with near full resists in 2 or 3 hits as a Tank with 1.1k life. I finally killed one due to hiding in a building for 5 minutes... OH great, another mob reaKKtor decided to punish non hackers for killing again. What the fuck is with the original developers making everything end game non friendly to non hackers?

Easy to hit, but will kill you in a few hits, most of the time without an animation. If you do manage to kill one of these after an hour of hiding in a building, unless you have hacking, once again you are denied your reward for playing the game. Not worth it for leveling or looting.

Another example of mobs seemingly being able to instantly target you, dealing far too much damage per hit and having huge range.

3) Doy Tunnels. You need a group, or be a droner. To get any reward you need to be a hacker, once a fucking again!

Not worth it unless you are a loner droner, or doing clan farming. Also, unless you hack, fuck off, so even if you are in a group, as a non hacker, you just need to trust your team mates.

Team/clan content which I think is good to have, especially if the other issues here are addressed.

4) Swamp Caves. Who cares. Used to be fun pre 2.2, but now the mobs just poison and kill you instantly. For once you don't need to hack to get your reward, but no techs drop, shit, nothing good drops.

Not worth it in any circumstance.

Another example of mobs seemingly being able to instantly target you and dealing far too much damage per hit. They shouldn't be able to instagib/2-3 shot players.

5) Point Red like dungeons. Fun! The war soldiers are actually fun to fight against! HIding, ducking, shooting, fun! Oh... The boss drops a shitty rocket launcher I wouldn't pay 50k for a 5 slot version of? No tech drops? Once again, like Poison Caves, a mob you don't need to hack, but you get no reward for.

Fun to do a few times just to say you did it, but the novelty wears off after you realize the boss mob drops shit.

From what I remember, you're right the mobs are actually fun to fight against.
The Boss really should have a 'slim/rare' chance to drop rare parts.

6) Crystal Caves. Biggest issue... Bats are tiny as fuck to hit. They also hit you harder than most fire mobs. Level design actually has spots where you can fall into a pit and you are stuck. You either have to die to the bats that fall down with you, or kill self, or reset position. Bat Queen does drop good loot, but people forget Neocron Melee is the most worthless play style in any mmo currently.

Fun to do for a bit, but once you get your bat queen set, you never go back.

Aiming in general seems to be a real issue against small/relatively fast moving mobs.

8) Johnny 5 bots. Found near DOY sectors. Meh... low rank mobs that need to be hacked.

Who cares.

There should be more level's of these mobs about with a chance to drop rare parts, giving a reason to hunt them rather than avoid them. Needing to hack them makes sense though as they are robots.
Like other mobs, their instant target, huge range and high initial damage needs to be fixed/balanced.

9) Worms. Found near DOY sectors. Pre 2.2 used to be THE leveling monster for high level players. Sticking DOY in the game, moving mobs around, and mingling worms along side Johnny 5 bots, Terror Maulers and out door Soul Clusters makes farming worms a thing of the past.

Considering all the zones there are up at that part of the map, separating them a bit shouldn't be too hard to do. (still nice to come across other random unexpected mobs now and again though)

10) Graves. Used to level in there pre 2.2, but after 2.2, mobs hit to hard to bother.

I find this is the same with a lot of mobs, they simply hit far too hard per hit to give you a real chance. I've nothing against difficult mobs and have a good chance of killing you, but they shouldn't be able to instagib/2-3 shot players.

11) Warbots. I don't hunt these anymore, so no opinion. Need hack anyway, but with the tech drop nerfed, who cares. Probably the one thing rifle users enjoy hunting in the game due to large hit box.

Need to be restored to their pre 2.2 tech part drop rates, and have more of them randomly about the game world.


All in all, I think a lot of the issues actually boil down to some issues with mob mechanics in NC.
Mob seem to be able to instantly target you the second they see you. (you have to wait a fair bit before your reticule is closed enough to try to hit them)

Most, if not all high level mobs simply deal far too much damage per hit to give you a realistic chance of trying to kill them, especially when you add in the fact that they can instantly target you, making trying to hide behind cover between shots pretty much a waste of time (quite often mobs will still be able to hit you when behind boxes/crates etc as well).

Then there's the issue of range, a lot mobs seem to still be able to hit your consistently at huge range that even a rifle user can barely use and will miss a lot of shots at.

My apologies for going a bit OT, but it's all relative when it comes to mobs, their difficulty and damage.

Possibly my points may be better in a new thread/topic.

[Izeo]

I know this isn't a huge contribution but I agree on the Y-Reps being unfair in that they: are very thin targets, have a large aggro range and a HUUUUUUUUUUUUGE attack range (imagine a player shooting like that..), do tons of damage, and aren't worth the loot. I actually thought they DID drop techs, but if they don't they really should.

Hoverbombers, I actually request that these guys are not modified, aside from decreasing their mob density per zone, and also decreasing their overall world map locations (the latter of which was earlier suggested in this thread, too). The reason that I ask that they stay the same, as far as difficulty/rank/AI is:
- I like that I'm terrified of them.
- The tactic(s) you might use to kill/hunt them, are, as far as I know, unique to them.

That said, yes, lessen their population. It's not cool to see 8 HoverEyes having a sky orgy.

[William Antrim]

Like nets ideas to be honest. I would like pve to go back to nc1 pve as well or maybe a tad harder.

[Forget My Name]

Yup, that is my entire point. high end mobs hit waaaay to hard in 2.2, and if they are supposed to be so damn hard to deal with, their loot is either unacceptable or not even accessible at all.

[Haxxor]

I know this isn't a huge contribution but I agree on the Y-Reps being unfair in that they: are very thin targets, have a large aggro range and a HUUUUUUUUUUUUGE attack range (imagine a player shooting like that..), do tons of damage, and aren't worth the loot. I actually thought they DID drop techs, but if they don't they really should.

Afaik Y reps can drop techs ive looted 1 or 2 but i think the drop rate is comparable with warbots.

Move Y replicants over to the doy areas too and remove the hacking requirement on them?

If its the ones in the south east i think theyre there for storyline purposes.

A few weeks later, the CityAdmin commissions Tangent Technologies to construct Ceres Cyborgs using the blueprints. It is intended to assault the Twilight Guardian with their help. Very soon, preparations commence in sector C-12. However, the cyborgs turn out to be utterly uncontrollable and are left in the sector, while development is continued elsewhere.

Maybe for the storyline 1 faction is able to control them and takes them somewhere else, something goes wrong and they end up a new high level levelling spot.