what's the biggest balancing problem?

[Dr Phil]

Some of the most enjoyable fights do happen in pp3 indeed.. its too bad its so rare to run into anyone there though

Last time i got a good fight there, was on my PE, where i ganked some dude who was there to buy armor or something, and then 5mins after i was fighting 4-5 ppl + ppu - was hilarious

BTW unreal exec is still usable.. its not nearly as viable as many other pistols, but it can still kill people.. i usually do about 80dmg per shot with it, and it does have a fairly good freq.. have killed several people with it on my spy tbh..
It IS underpowered though, yes.. But that just makes it more fun to kill people with IMO.
I have a pain easer PE too, which is viable too.
Uh and i often use FL on my rifle spy.. <3 that weapon!

The underpowered weapons does require you to be better than your opponent though


And people saying that WoC is a balance problem... Open your damn eyes and take a look at a rifle that can kill most that arent a tank or PPU buffed in 2 shots... Yes im talking about the Dissy.. which is NOT WoC!
Or CS which also does huge amount of damage, if you can aim it (for some reason there's a lot of people that cant though.. ).
Luckily CS needs some skill to use..

[Brammers]

Hmm... been meaning to post my full thoughts on this for a few days now.

@Unreal - Excellent post, I did get to read it before it had to be edited.

The cheating - well I've been feed up of hearing about exploits and cheating for months now, and I'm glad to hear that's one of the main focus points for the patch.

I hope KK continue to close down on exploits and cheaters when the patch goes live, and when KK start charging for NC again, there will be no excuse for not patching or getting rid of the cheaters in the future.

Balancing - I hope APU's get a look at again. Sure they are meant to be Glass Cannon's but at the monent they are just Glass but not a Cannon. In other words, the damage needs a little boost or the frequency of their casts needs increasing. (Also please add some WoC spells for monks!)

MC Tanks - well I've got a capped one that has been gathering dust since 2.2 since it doesn't do hardly any damage to players. Although I suspect this is more of a netcode issue than a balance issue.

PPU's ok if you remove PPU's, what do you replace them with? I seem to remember in 2.2 balancing, there was proposal for a 3rd monk class that could use the anitbuff spells only... or something like that. However the whole monk issue is one big issue that needs a lot of thinking about.

[Dr Phil]

MC Tanks - well I've got a capped one that has been gathering dust since 2.2 since it doesn't do hardly any damage to players. Although I suspect this is more of a netcode issue than a balance issue.

As it is at the moment, MC Tanks destroy noobs (with the right setup), since they can be crazy fast and pretty much unhittable.

Sadly my melee tank has been lommed to HC for leveling, since he needed a few STR levels and quite a lot of CON.
But when he was MC, i won about 90% of the duels i tried.
with about 260MC i did about 80dmg to most per hit with Tzusun or whatever that sword is called.
Against some tanks i did use 3 (yes, three!!!!) full stam boosters....

A few hints about melee tanks:

• normal PA 1-4.....

• loads of speed = 130+ atl and full agl...

• you wont hurt a 0/2 char with less than 200MC

• Move like a madman - Be drunk or drugged IRL while fighting, to make the dance even more unpredictable if you must!!

• DO NOT BOTHER WITH RESISTOR IMPLANTS!!!!! Taking damage? Dance better mofo!

• Have fun!

Melee is fun as hell, but not easy.. So if your not a decent pvp'er, dont even try

[Asurmen Spec Op]

OK, let me elaborate.

WoC has been poorly implemented. Rather than cater to all the classes it really only caters for two; the spy and private eye.

As a result we see the same setups and the same people using the stupidly overpowered weapons like the x-bow or the ak. The tank and monks haven't nearly got as many toys as these classes and as such there is a divide. WoC has really unbalanced things, there is no variety and there is no incentive to get it on a monk or tank.

Damn, I still love you.

[Hell-demon]

You may kiss my hand if you like.

[MrTrip]

You may kiss my hand if you like.

Three words.

Pretty Black PA


<3 WoC Monks.

[Hell-demon]

That means they are already dressed for their funeral

[Asurmen Spec Op]

They are black like their soul /wrists

[Cromac]

I've mentioned it already but after being attacked by 2 spies in PP3 on my tank i'm going to re-iterate - IMPLEMENT A RUN SPEED CAP.

The fact that everybody is pumping millions of points into agi and ath has meant that unskilled noob idiots who cant aim can get away with being "Good PvPers" because they can just run around like lunatics, but struggle to hit me at all. I managed to kill one after about 5 minutes of his stupid dance and ofcourse the other managed to get me down. I'm not saying that i should be able to beat 2 spies while solo on my tank, but the whole fight was pretty un-enjoyable.

Not to mention this negates the fact people have to work out a decent CON set up, and few people wear PA ruins different aspects in the game.

[Dr Phil]

I've mentioned it already but after being attacked by 2 spies in PP3 on my tank i'm going to re-iterate - IMPLEMENT A RUN SPEED CAP.

The fact that everybody is pumping millions of points into agi and ath has meant that unskilled noob idiots who cant aim can get away with being "Good PvPers" because they can just run around like lunatics, but struggle to hit me at all. I managed to kill one after about 5 minutes of his stupid dance and ofcourse the other managed to get me down. I'm not saying that i should be able to beat 2 spies while solo on my tank, but the whole fight was pretty un-enjoyable.

Not to mention this negates the fact people have to work out a decent CON set up, and few people wear PA ruins different aspects in the game.

Im kind of unsure about the whole runspeed cap. I know theres quite a few that would like a runspeed cap again, but just as many there dont want it.
IF they would put it in again, it has to be pretty high..

I know that I would get bored very fast, if people was slow - THAT removes skill.


No runspeed cap = more possible setups tbh.
So far i have used an all out damage setup on my tank, all out speed setup, and latest a resist setup.
Same on my spies, which a are pretty balanced between damage, speed and resists.

High speed is fun, but there will always be some people that still can aim you, even with 140+ ATL/180+ AGL.


Only bad thing about the insane speed that some people has (and i have on several characters), is that I cant aim people with dev for shit - its currently a 100% anti monk weapon for me



PS: Its not possible to "go for a" good pvp'er, if you dont hit people..
To be good, you have to be able to "dance" AND aim..

[Mighty Max]

The problem is with it's sideeffects rather then the speed.

[Cromac]

"No runspeed cap = more possible setups" Is the biggest load of bull i've ever heard. Everyone seems to specc ath to keep up with eachother. At the moment, if you dont exploit in PvP you are at a massive disadvantage to those who do. I could specc a standard setup, sticking to the old method and just having moderate speed and good CON. This would result in me failing to keep up with other players while they clipped and dived around the map and eventually being worn down anyway, making my entire setup pointless.

Fast run speed is not fun, it just serves to make noobs feel like they're good fighters because they cant die because they just run off at 1000mph when things start to go wrong. It exacerbates the problems of clipping and encourages players to avoid death at any cost by means of exploiting.

I can imagine it would also act to disencourage noobs to play. Imagine starting out as somebody who doesnt play many games like neocron or FPS games and having little ability to aim. As soon as they are PvP able they will be repeatedly killed in PvP while failing to get a single shot off on players running about at the speed of sound. What. Fun.

I seem to remember plenty of spies and PE's pre 2.2 who specced a bit more speed and did well as a result, this was the way it should have been.

[Mighty Max]

This would result in me failing to keep up with other players while they clipped and dived around the map and eventually being worn down anyway, making my entire setup pointless.

Would you really neet to compete with these?
If fighting with clipping in mind is no fun, why would you do it?

Nah. It's all your choice.

[Ka0s^]

Im with cromac on this. So far my PvP since coming back has happened 2 ways. Either GR killed on my tank by mysterious chainsaw sounding AKs (dead in half a clip, and YES my tank still has its old CON setup not speed) Or ive had the unfortuate experience of running into p2 to visit the Smuggler when i was shot at by an unhittable tank because i couldnt physically turn my char quick enough to get a decent shot with my CS (yes i can aim it properly).

Theres so many people now speccing speed, exploiting, that if you like PvP as has been said you either do the same or dont bother. Best of all is that these superspeed types most of them have shit setups and couldnt win if they didnt spend half there time between clips.

Peoples setups used to be a secret, it gave you an edge in PvP obviously but a good allround setup was important for clan fighting.. My tank currently has a good balance of resists speed and health, it is dependent on switching armour in and out though. Im proud of my setup and it doesnt need every drug or speed to be viable PvE or PvP. Yes im slow but i dont die easy (unless its someone from a certain clan with a certain AK) this is how i know people are cheating still.

Put the cap back on runspeed and lets go back to depending on skill rather than a silly dance.

[Dr Phil]

Of course being SLOW is a bad thing, but you dont have to be lightning fast to have a chance.. Since i changed my setup to have good resists instead of the 140 ATL i had before (im now at 100 ATL when drugged), and i dont think ive lost a duel so far..
GOOD pvp'ers can hit the speed specced chars, and can avoid getting hit themselves even with lower speed specced.

About the newbs, yea thats a problem, but its hard to be a newb in all skillbased MMOs. THATS what NF is for


@ Ka0s^
Setups still makes a major difference tbh.

Uh and i can kill pretty much all unbuffed tanks without ever having to reload on my AK spy. If you can aim a AK, it does massive damage.
To be honest i havent seen a "hacked" AK since mother'id-blablabla whatever his name was, got banned.


EDIT:

I honestly dont get why you people think that more speed = less skill...
Its harder to aim someone whos very fast = it require more skill to kill him.

As i said, a GOOD pvp'er can hit people even if they are lightning fast (maybe not land 100% shots on the fastest, but still). so there a character made for high speed is at a disadvantage.

Kinda sounds like you guys want to stand still, in front of each other and let the setup decide whos the winner