OP fighting in Terra...

[Cromac]

Serious hasn't had the people to fight for the past few days, not sure why but that's the way it goes if we don't have enough on then we'll have to make do with p2 fighting until then.

and Kapow stfu, all the things Mystic has mentioned have happened, logging off when they lose, not showing up at all. Then Jini comes on and bitches about why no one is fighting. You and your clan are pathetic.

[Tickles]

AD been a little out of it for a couple of days. I know I have as my Jan exam is looming.

AD and Wrld have teamed up on many occasions but generally its only because we hear a "All Wrld logged clanned chars" then "AD can you come help, we're majorly outnumbered." That or its the other way around with us asking them for help.

I'm not saying we (as Tangent) haven't zerged aswell at all. We do (all clans/factions do it on occasion) but generally if our two clans are there it's because we've been trying to equal up the numbers or else just had a message saying "i'm bored, you guys op'ing?" and so they join us or vice versa.

When people are bored, they wanna OP and if either of our clans are OP'ing then they join us/we join them. Just happens. I'm not going to tell someone, "no we don't want you to op with us." I wouldn't expect to hear it from them either.

Also why do you care so much that "2 sometimes 3 tangent clans were fighting us." It's not the amount of clans that is important, its the amount of players. EXL have come with us a couple times because they're not very big. Sure that makes it 3 clans but it's generally only Carl who is in AD, EXL and Wrld anyway.


Anyway we've been having some fun fights. See you all on the battlefield.

[William Antrim]

Also why do you care so much that "2 sometimes 3 tangent clans were fighting us." It's not the amount of clans that is important, its the amount of players. EXL have come with us a couple times because they're not very big. Sure that makes it 3 clans but it's generally only Carl who is in AD, EXL and Wrld anyway.

Different strokes for different folks. When we do it we are told its a zerg and we suck etc. So we fight clan v clan and thats that. If we dont have enough people in we dont fight, its that simple.

What is the point of having individual clans if clans cant fight like that. They should be removed and everyone should just fight for their faction in that case. It wont happen because its bs. We have ALWAYS fought clan v clan.

Cromac glad to see you left Body Count, a pm would've been appreciated.

[Doc Holliday]

AD been a little out of it for a couple of days. I know I have as my Jan exam is looming.

AD and Wrld have teamed up on many occasions but generally its only because we hear a "All Wrld logged clanned chars" then "AD can you come help, we're majorly outnumbered." That or its the other way around with us asking them for help.

I'm not saying we (as Tangent) haven't zerged aswell at all. We do (all clans/factions do it on occasion) but generally if our two clans are there it's because we've been trying to equal up the numbers or else just had a message saying "i'm bored, you guys op'ing?" and so they join us or vice versa.

When people are bored, they wanna OP and if either of our clans are OP'ing then they join us/we join them. Just happens. I'm not going to tell someone, "no we don't want you to op with us." I wouldn't expect to hear it from them either.

Also why do you care so much that "2 sometimes 3 tangent clans were fighting us." It's not the amount of clans that is important, its the amount of players. EXL have come with us a couple times because they're not very big. Sure that makes it 3 clans but it's generally only Carl who is in AD, EXL and Wrld anyway.


Anyway we've been having some fun fights. See you all on the battlefield.

thats exactly the reasons your getting accused of zerging everyone tickles.

so u gone to serious too then cromac?

[HOG]

I dunno sometimes like tickles said..i mean you just want to fight and if you need more fighters...you ask for help. However, instead of help arriving with the 4 they had online they bring 8...and now what? With limited op fights going on.. everyone wants in on the action! I really think its all with good intentions but people just can understand the reason why certain clans do certain things. Im sure there are good reasons...for most ^^.

[Cromac]

I dunno sometimes like tickles said..i mean you just want to fight and if you need more fighters...you ask for help. However, instead of help arriving with the 4 they had online they bring 8...and now what? With limited op fights going on.. everyone wants in on the action! I really think its all with good intentions but people just can understand the reason why certain clans do certain things. Im sure there are good reasons...for most ^^.

carebear!

j/k

[Okran]

Everyone loves to OP fight, especially me

Numbers are always going to a problem, there are so many times the situation changes due to various factors like people logging in and out all the time. Yes we sometimes get asked to get involved when there are say 6 of us online. Then 15 mins later more of AD might login and say hey guys whats happening? Where one of us might reply with hey m8 op fight at tezla. I certainly wouldn't want to be told hey we're all at an op fight but you can't come.

So to re-iterate - we do not zerg intentionally, it is just the many situations that can occur at the time. We always look to see how many of us and the enemy clan are online before we decide to attack. If we outnumber them we simply don't attack.

[William Antrim]

The one point that every single one of you has missed so far is the simple fact that its zerging that made people leave nc in the first place.

Youre all in here crying out one minute for more op fights and then the next people diss the populations but its just this kind of stuff that makes people quit. I cannot for one minute think that noone else thought of this. I have seen it happen so many times.

It happened to Uranus and now from what i can see its just happening all over again. I dont want to go down the route where I call up every single ally I have just to take one op off one clan because I know that thats what theyre gonna do.

What happened to a bit of sportsmanship? It went out of the window I guess. Personally I think its bs and I am having 10 times the fun with UT3.

[THE_TICK!!!!]

unfortunately i can see some valid points, but being military minded i can see easy ways around all your arguments with a little in clan discipline and prior planning, op fighting is about winning not whining :P But honestly, how to stop a zerg...think about it if YOU where the zergin team..what would pull YOU off, a faction m8's zerg team..... Tactics folks tactics...honestly lack of discipline loses more op fights than lack of skill.

[Sorin]

The one point that every single one of you has missed so far is the simple fact that its zerging that made people leave nc in the first place.

That, and constant, random ganking, even by ally and neutral. Which is why of those that are left, so many run with LEs now, even at high level. Gankocron.

Morale of the NC story in general being that if you keep acting like tools and doing stupid crap that pisses people off, the people are going to leave.

[megavoid]

Hoi Guys,

The one point that every single one of you has missed so far is the simple fact that its zerging that made people leave nc in the first place.

I think general whining about numbers and hyping the matter makes more people leave than the matter by itself. Today we were quite outnumbered in a few fights against WRLD and didn't have a real chance to win any fight but we defended anyway and had some hours of nice action. These were good fights, no matter what! I think we had 11 vs 7 which is okay because 18 people had their fun... Those eleven more than the other seven but there will always be a loser...

Main problem is when numbers are the other way around there is usually a big cry about something called "zerg" on OOC. I remember times when a zerg was something that could really be compared to the thing from StarCraft...

What I have been told in the last days:

• Attacking a clan with 7 online when you have 8 attackers IS a zerg.
• Attacking a clan with 5 online when you have 7 fighters IS a zerg.
• Being attacked with 11 chars when you have 7 online IS NOT a zerg.

I vote for discarding the term "zerg" when there are only two clans (attacker and defender) and / or less than 2:1 numbers involved... thanks.

Danny

P.S.: GF

[Tickles]

I like to think I have good sportsmanship. I play this game for the PvP and most of all for the OP fights. When we win, i say "gf" on ooc, and when we lose, i say "gf" on ooc. I don't complain about zergs. If you guys attack us and you have double our numbers then most of us turn up to the fight. If you attack us again straight away we probably won't turn up because being 2:1 odds sucks. The winner may think he's great but in the end he doesn't get a proper fight, a fight where in the lulls you're heart in beating and you're thinking, "shit i haven't had a fight like this in weeks." It's only in the fights where the sides are equally matched, where you've lost a couple and won a couple, that you come back thinking its fun.

If you zerg, you have only won an op, not some great battle. It's just boring.

If you are zerged, you have only lost an op, again not some great battle. Again it's just boring.

I don't know what William is talking about because being zerged has never made me leave the game. It only makes me think, "we need more people, let's recruit" or "we need allies, let's call them up." There are far more problems with this game to make me leave. Sure boredom is one of them but not being zerged.

Also "we have always fought clan vs clan." Well who cares, frankly. A clan is your group of friends or soon to be friends. You op with them but if you get attacked, you pop out of the UG and you're faced with 12 people and you have 5 other clan mates on, why would I not call up Wrld and ask for some help. That way the attackers get a better fight, and we and Wrld have a nice equal fight.

Wrld and AD are very separate entities with different leaders and histories, yet we have each others back. I'm not going to condone any zerging we have done where we have teamed up with Wrld to attack, it's just frankly down to everyone wanting to OP and neither clan having enough to do it on their own.

Scream all you want, but you never hear me screaming on ooc when we zerged. I just fight and die, or do something else until we have the numbers (through clan or allies) to retaliate.

Zerging happens. All the major clans do it. Clipping happens. Atleast one main player in each major clan loves to intentionally clip. Shit happens. Just play

[megavoid]

Word!

Danny

[jini]

Ok, I hate arguing. but I will not let some bullshit flying around my clan either.

For starters, let me remind you dear Doc, That tangent is what it is, because AD started it and we continued it. It's certainly not powerful because Regulators made it powerful, so next time you try spell something just remember that fact and shutup, or make a decent clan and join us if you believe you are capable.

Now the myths about zerging and all that:
In general my clan doesnt have problems, when we have a decent force of a couple ppus, the hackers, and some 4-5 fighters. I would gladly fight or defend as a BALANCED force of 7-8 against a group of 15, and still have chances of winning because 80% of WoWlords ARE skilled. But we have 0 chances of winning if for example we miss a ppu. This is where the game loses its fun and zerg is entering the scheme.
Now these last days it appears that some people, as a stupid excuse, want to exagerate and call a fight a zerg because AD and WoWlords are fighting together. No. this is stupid. I dont give a single fuck if we fight together with AD or not. I want OP fights. I also dont give a shit if serious are helping grims: I want BALANCE IN FIGHTS. And I want balance because I want to win -or lose- from skill, not from ppus.

Next time you start calling zerg and shit like that, just remember to count PPUs. These are your guide for "zerging" or anything that takes the skill out of the equation. PPUs are still needed for long and fun fights though, but its when the other team has, say 4-5 ppus and therefore has the ability to hab and antiheal against the other team that has only 2 ppus, who can barely rez their fighters.

So, in short, ppus can be your guide to unbalanced fights and not numbers.
Skill is your guide for fun in this game and not Clipwhores(like Mys... or Vil....)
Yes bring your allies to battle, there is no rule written in stone in that game that says clan only fights, other in the minds of some (mostly useless fighters), BUT maintain ppu balance!!!
And last, if you want to win as a clan, dont bring an army of tanks (Grims) you will get wasted... Go for a more balanced team with spies, apus, maybe pes (maybe ) and tanks. Spies can help your ppu with nanites and stealth, whereas a tank requires constant attention.

And last, I liked the fight we had vs grims in Regant, mainly because went thru the GR to avoid running, got killed from synapse then rezzed from castro the -god- and then kapwn

Danny, give me my team of 7-8 fighters with 3 ppus included, and I will win against ANY team of 20 with only 1 ppu. Focused shooting, habing and antihealing are your friends...

[William Antrim]

unfortunately i can see some valid points, but being military minded i can see easy ways around all your arguments with a little in clan discipline and prior planning, op fighting is about winning not whining :P But honestly, how to stop a zerg...think about it if YOU where the zergin team..what would pull YOU off, a faction m8's zerg team..... Tactics folks tactics...honestly lack of discipline loses more op fights than lack of skill.

People dont play the game to have military discipline though Tickster. If they did they would all be doing the honourable thing and serving their country.

@ Tickles - I watched an entire server die in Nc1 due to constant zerging. None of the people in that zerg (for the most part) visited the english forum however, due to language constraints. Plenty of the people who still post here however can tell you about what it was like on our server for so many years.


At the end of the day, I come and play this game for a while and I get bored and I leave again, but one thing I have noticed over the time I have played is that the excuses and reasons all stay the same. Everyone has their own reason, everyone else calls it an excuse. The opinions and reasons and even some of the excuses I have read here today have not changed from every other thread I have ever read on the subject. It will get to the point eventually where people get tired of the bs that gets thrown around and they will just leave. Many wont even bother to post on the forum because it means that little to them.

I am not whining here, I dont really care either way. To be successful in this game you have to be here all the hours God sends and even then, what does it mean to be successful, what do you get? Fame? no. Glory? hardly. An e-penis rub... well sure.

There is more fun to be had imo in many other ways in nc than just worrying about who has all the ops and all this bs. Reputations dont mean dick because youre a skilled fighter to your friends and youre a "noob" to your enemies. The big clans own the ops because they can be bothered to, the small clans wont because its not in their interests or they cant beat the zerg, c'est la vie.

Anyway, enough of this. I offered you my opinions because I have seen it all in nc. Nothing surprises me anymore. When you have lurked here as long as I have you tend to see recycled opinions and ideas I guess.

Jini - whoosh sunshine, its gone totally over your head as usual. You didnt "start" anything in Tangent and you wont "finish" it, this is an mmo. Nothing ever starts or finishes. It is as consistently random as time itself. By that logic you could say that Soldierz "started" it because despite being some major a-holes you knew you would fight clan v clan. They were big enough that they didnt need allies. I refer to previous posts I have made when dealing with you, the snidey insults do not go unnoticed, even if they are somewhat clandestine these days. I feel so sorry for you.
Oh btw we made a decent clan a long time ago - we were the only pro city clan to hold ops for about 12 months on uranus in the face of one of the biggest zergs you have ever seen. 2 servers full would fight us and we still won so dont come with all that talk about skillz etc. Not interested, dont need it. Change the record.

Everything youre doing now and bragging about, we already did mate. We dont need to constantly prove ourselves because we are confident in our own abilities and dont need to constantly belittle other people in searching for that acheivement.

Besides I am keeping it civil.