Players versus Environment

[hatmankh]

You can't assume someones setup is bad just because they think version 2.2 ruined neocron, I am %100 sure theres nothing wrong with my setup and the only reason I haven't cancelled my account yet is hope that the game gets fixed.

[Matanius]

seriously hatmankh, u've said enough! we all know what u think about 2.2 and ur not giving any constructive criticsm. I've never known anyone to whine as much as you. U've found out that they are looking into it and that you are not the only person experiencing problems. I even agree with you, PvE is a bit off skew, but i deal with it and carry on.

Btw, what TL gatling u using? what is ur rank (bothe CR and normal rank) what ammo u using? what is ur wep lore and h-c (or whatever u are using)?

[Burgeri]

You gave them a "chance" which was to see if they were the same and if your same setups and same tactics would work... and they didn't so now you're displeased. And generally in this type of situation you set it up for disaster by assuming it will be bad before it happens... making you immediately tip the scales towards hating it.

Good analysis. There are certain things that I wanted from Neocron and those are the things that I enjoyed. If I can't do them anymore, it is a completely different game for me. I am waiting to see if I can some day start doing them again but in the meantime I am looking for similar experiences from other games. It is good that you can adjust and I wish the game well, whether I am playing it or not.

I actually had to try the PVE before I was convinced it was bad. Before that my pet hate about Neocron has always been the exaggerated need for tradeskillers. They were always hard to find (apart from the glory days when plaza-1 in NC1 was a true bazaar). Making them even more scarce with 2.2 felt moronic already before upgrade. However, that was just a nuisance compared to the balancing disaster we have now.

But Matanius is right: we have now all expressed our respective opinions on 2.2. History will tell who was right.

[Matanius]

Here you are hatmankh

http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=138650

No go do something constructive.

[Burgeri]

Here you are hatmankh

http://forum.neocron.com/showthread.php?t=138650

No go do something constructive.

Sweet! I am going to give it another go tonight!

[Biotruck]

My only compaint about the 2.2 rebalance is PVE. Spiderbots are over power and take an unbuffed monk to 0 health in no time. Fire mobs at 65/65 do too much damage for not enough reward. 120/120 mobs should be as hard as they are cause they drop rares. Keeping the NPC hp high is fine but lower the damage just a touched. Somewhere in between 2.1 and 2.2 would be good cause 2.1 they were too weak and in 2.2 they are too strong. I have not tried mc5 at all so i cant really say much for that. But i have gone to Ceres lab and well it wasn't fun. Me being a ppu can barely keep myself alive let alone keep others alive. Holy Heal doesn't do enough healing. I like the fact that it was nerfed and that it last longer because of it. But when u nerf something u dont make it useless. When fighting in pvp the holy heal is awesome they balanced it perfect. but pve on the other hand the holy heal never heals enough compared to the damage of lets say a grim chaser. Say u have a max health of 600 and 120/120 mob hits u for at least 100 per shot. It takes the AI about 3 seconds to target and shoot u so in all it would take about 18 seconds to kill a runner. Now holy heal only heal about 45-50 max per tick a tick being i believe 3 seconds.so in that 18 seconds u have only healed 300 health maximum. With the damage of the mobs being how high it is u are certain to die in a matter of seconds. Now making the mobs do less damage would even this out and solve alot of the pve issues. ALSO i agree that altering the Holy Heal will unbalance pvp so an alteration to PVE is needed. but just so it is post I LOVE THE BALANCING PATCH FOR PVP u guys got it right.

[prozium]

when a 20/20 wolf out in the desert takes 20 hits from a holy lightining halo and isnt dead, somethings gotta change lol

[Doc Holliday]

the damage is still too high in pve vs the runner imho. i went in to the swamp caves on a pe with full carbon armour on and high resist in por and caught 2 stacks and died upstairs. that was from the most basic monster in there. its not the bat its the other smaller one. i cant imagine how the shaman would be.

[extant]

* How do you feel about their overall difficulty (damage, health, armor)?
The health and armor upgrade seem perfectly logical in their current area, damage needs to be toned down alot. As a capped character using the best armor attuned to the mob I'm killing I seem to be ********** without a ppu. Current heals are terrible with this minute long thing, you put a heal on and are basically helpless unless you hide and wait.

* Are the NPCs in the starting areas manageable by new players?
Have not tried them, left and went straight to mutants.

* Are there any mobs that are not worth killing?
Mad copbots and spider bots, the damage they deal and time to kill them at their rank I get no reward for killing them and just junk loot.

* Should there be any changes to the credit rewards for killing high levels mobs (some players suggested the credit reward be removed)?

Again, not everyones rich, we need some form of income.

[-=z=-]

I'll just preface this by saying that I'm a returning player starting over. My highest character is */20.

* How do you feel about their overall difficulty (damage, health, armor)?
Beggars hit really hard and from a long way away making it very hard to level up in the Sewers Level 2. I decided to go with the plants since they are mostly stationary and I don't have to worry about packs of them chasing me.

Hardest I've fought has been aggie captains and they seem about the same as when I played two years ago. Their damage seems higher, but for the level they don't seem overpowered.

* Starting at which monster rank should a solo, capped player be unable to kill an NPC?

This should be based upon the reward. If a mob is difficult but not impossible for a solo runner then there should be a chance of rareparts. If they require a group (especially if it requires a PPU) there should be a higher reward (Ultimas, MC5, Rare Blueprints, whatever).

* Are the NPCs in the starting areas manageable by new players?
There's a 25/25 MC5 victim that aggro'd from far away and would have killed me if I hadn't been able to run for cover.

There's also a viper that's around 9/9 that was pretty tough but not too bad. It was nice to see mobs in newbie MC5 again. I remember it being pretty empty last time.

The security robots were killable. I did die a few times when I ran into both of them at once. But I remember them killing me in 2-3 shots back in NC1, so being able to complete the quest was nice.

* Are the rewards from killing monsters good now (considering the thougher mobs drop more rareparts)?

In general I haven't had the money problems that some people have. Maybe they were referring to a part of the game beyond where I am at.

The plants in the sewers are one of the better mobs to kill at their level, but their rewards suck. I don't need the old too high rewards of implants and LOM pills, but could you add a little junk so I can clone some ammo?

* Are there any mobs that are not worth killing?

Beggers of all types are too dangerous for me to risk. They do drop good rewards (bone implants), but they are usually in packs and agro from too far away and their shots hurt... a lot! I couldn't find much armor at that level so I can't really protect myself against their attacks.

Also tiny things (cockroaches, small spiders) are almost impossible to hit with the starting drones. I have to be point blank with the starting drones to hit anything. Maybe the drones' aiming value is bugged.

[Vryce]

I could say reduce hp and dmg, but mobs being more powerful in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing. The problem is leveling time. If dmg and hp doesn't get altered, at least increase the xp/cash gain significantly (as in double or more).

Now we're getting somewhere.......definitely agree with this, DJ. (You scared me with your earlier post about dropping mob loot, )

I have a newbie tank, */7, and am running thru the sewers with a baseball bat. I have noticed that it takes longer to kill lvl 1 sewer mobs, but it's not that bad. I'll check his stats and post later.

[Dribble Joy]

As stated by KK in the at leats one source, mobs above lvl 64 are not intended for single runners to tackle.

Which is fair enough, it makes sense in a way.

However, this makes solo play tedious, if not near impossible.

Here's a suggestion: Increase xp gain dramatically up to lvl 64, then set the xp gradient much lower.

This would make killing lvl 50-60 mobs worth while for a solo runner, and prevent the xp gained with a team in a cave from being so much higher.

[kurai]

*sigh*

KK always seem to do stuff like this ... make decisions that seem so fundamentally wrongheaded and contrary to common sense, let alone business sense, you really have to wonder what reality they are living in.

The level 64 and above mobs needing a team to handle might be a rational idea IF there was a pre-existing large and stable population.
Is anyone really going to tell me that's the case, and keep a straight face ?

I have news for you guys - you aren't Blizzard and, frankly, you are never going to be. There have been too many missed opportunities and mis-steps along the way.
Some have seemingly been out of your control - the initial failure to achieve population "critical mass" can arguably be laid at CDV's door and has probably had the biggest effect, but you really haven't helped matters with some of the subsequent decisions made along the way. I won't start an exhaustive laundry list of landmark "WTF ? " moments in Neocron's evolution - I'm sure all the old vets, and most likely you yourselves, already have a pretty good idea of which ones still linger in the memory like unquiet ghosts.

In summation - the PvE changes are another pivotal "WTF ? " moment. How on earth did you get this far along with the implementation of this and ever think it would be a good idea ?

[DX-Defender]

im not complaining, but the pve dmg is crazy. at the same time it makes farming kind of suspenseful and exciting. like for example WB hunting..
i was out a couple days ago in j02 farming some WB's.. had 2 WBT's coming after me, the 2 of them shooting me i could handle, but then out of nowhere a small spiderbot sentry comes from behind a hill and 2 shots me. i was pissed till i stopped and thought about it, then laughed.

[Dribble Joy]

Another problem with the 'only soloable up to lvl64' issue, is that there's no areas where solo leveling can now really happen.

Where the WB was the solo mob of choice, these are now near impossible apart from riflers. The whole J_0x area and swathes of the canyon is no longer a place for the lone runner.

We need lvl 55 - 64 mobs in abundance as well as an xp boost or solo hunting - along with a lot of players - is going to vanish alltogether.