[MERGED] CM symp/SL

[Nidhogg]

You're suggesting that people should not be able to join a clan until their characters are well advanced? I think that would kill the game for new players pretty quickly.

N

[Spermy]

You're suggesting that people should not be able to join a clan until their characters are well advanced? I think that would kill the game for new players pretty quickly.

N

3/4 nights casual play. And there's nothing extra a clan offers than a tag, some public cabs and a channel. Tag is irrelevant, channel can be worked around via buddy, and public cabs can be accessed by any friends already in clan. You can work around it.

I'm more fond of this idea, as new players could still be supported by clans, and on the road to /30 can get a feel for what it's all about, without having to forgo the support of a clan.

It's really not that much of an issue.

[Nidhogg]

I disagree. Clan membership is a vital part of the experience and new players need better links to the community than running around shouting "Where can I get 1337 stuff!" and hoping they will be "supported by clans".

This forum far too often thinks in terms of players who have been here for years where a new character is something that is created and quickly power-levelled to PvP standards.

N

[CMaster]

I disagree. Clan membership is a vital part of the experience and new players need better links to the community than running around shouting "Where can I get 1337 stuff!" and hoping they will be "supported by clans".

This forum far too often thinks in terms of players who have been here for years where a new character is something that is created and quickly power-levelled to PvP standards.

N

You are aware thats its widley considered foolish for any new players to remove their LE before /50 or so? Its generally discouraged for newbies to join clans, because removing there LE means they WILL get killed repeatedly while levelling an lose a lot of stuff that the clans give them. Add to that the fact that most clans that invite lowbies are just ninja-invites and don't support them at all. Getting clanned at low level as a new player is already both considered unusal and inadvisable. So I fail to see how implmenting what was suggested would cause trouble anyway.

[cRazy-]

You are aware thats its widley considered foolish for any new players to remove their LE before /50 or so? Its generally discouraged for newbies to join clans, because removing there LE means they WILL get killed repeatedly while levelling an lose a lot of stuff that the clans give them. Add to that the fact that most clans that invite lowbies are just ninja-invites and don't support them at all. Getting clanned at low level as a new player is already both considered unusal and inadvisable. So I fail to see how implmenting what was suggested would cause trouble anyway.

I agree, KK advises low level players to keep their LE in and they also say its viable for them to join clans.

Sounds a bit contradictive to me.

[Bugs Gunny]

I think you should be prevented from being able to remove the le untill you hit rank 40.

[Nidhogg]

We provide advice. We don't force people to take it.

Speaking from personal experience, when I was a newbie I was happy to risk my safety for the opportunity to join a clan (and had my ass kicked on numerous occasions - all part of the fun). If I was forced to play alone until I was more advanced then I probably would have quit.

It's a choice.

N

[Pantho]

oh why, oh why, couldnt we have had this rule to begin with :O

[Spermy]

I disagree. Clan membership is a vital part of the experience and new players need better links to the community than running around shouting "Where can I get 1337 stuff!" and hoping they will be "supported by clans".

This forum far too often thinks in terms of players who have been here for years where a new character is something that is created and quickly power-levelled to PvP standards.

N

I wandered around till I was /45 before joining a clan. Newbies don't hope to be supported, especially at the moment, anytime our faction, or even alliance discovered a new player, they'd support them, even if they didn't clan them, they got everything they needed.

Yes, being in a clan is an integral part of the game. For a newbie who doesn't know what the hell goes on within them? I think not.

Key aspects of a clan.

OP ownership/fights... Last I looked, anyone could take part.

A nifty tag - Purely Aesthetic.

Channel - Yeah, fine, faction/budd/alliance works just as good. If anything a clan would promote a more insular attitude early on.

Public Cabs/Tradeskill support/ Bits and bats - generally these things just get given.

I'm still in favour of 30+ LE removal - it solves the SL issue to some degree. New players cannot miss out on something they never had. And at most it's an inconvenience for older players, solvable in a few hours of playtime.

More to the point, what use exactly is a < /30 to anyone?

[Zheo]

We provide advice. We don't force people to take it.

Speaking from personal experience, when I was a newbie I was happy to risk my safety for the opportunity to join a clan (and had my ass kicked on numerous occasions - all part of the fun). If I was forced to play alone until I was more advanced then I probably would have quit.

It's a choice.

N

I kept my gentanks le in till he had 97 strength, base. I took my apu hybrid's le out ranked around /30, and He got attacked every five bloody minutes, at all the popular leveling locations, I had a choice between trecking to the distant places or dying constantly (in the end I decided i hated monks and deleted him) I see newbies all the time whining that they got killed by such and such and when I ask why they took their le out they say "My friend told me to" or some such, and I think so why are you complaining?

The point is being part of a clan MAKES you a target more so than not being part, if say DR see a clan their at war with (and neutral too) they will still kill the noob, and tell him it's his fault, if he drops the tags (clan tags) he wont die. So Nidhogg, if you want to join a clan, waiting till your level /30 is probably a GOOD idea anyway.

The bottom line is that soullight is there to protect noobs, so why is it that it's set up so noobs can exploit it? Do I care if my 0/2 dies 1000 times, no because I'll be laughing at all the people who have to sit in tech haven over night. Of cause I wouldn't do that, it's rather sad really.

The situation is difficult but I'm sure I could work out a fair and just system, (but theres no point because I dont work for reakktor so it'd be ignored).

[RusSki]

Zheo i like your idea in post number 45.

But i dont think nidd is gonna budge his stance on noobies needing help.

However what if it was possible to join a LE only clan up to the point where a char reaches lvl 31. At which point they are automatically kicked from the clan and they are able to remove their LE.
When/if the leader of the clan leaves or is auto kicked the next person down gets leadership status so the clan could continue.

Ofcourse these LE only clans could not take over outposts or take part in the other associated fighting practices of clans. But instead it could be a learning ground where new players can become used to how clans work, make alliances with other ppl and help each other out.

That would satisfy both sides of the argument... ours and nidds.

just an idea

[yuuki]

i actually do think that claning too early for a real noob kills parts of the game, you will not explore the world on your own, you will be taken leveling way too fast imo, you actually are taken the best time of a game, when everything is new and you just run around and can find new things and places. i think a real noob is rather discouraged continuing to play if he gets ganked permanently by some hi lvl chars, cause he had some bad advice by a friend to remove the le at mc5

[Zheo]

i actually do think that claning too early for a real noob kills parts of the game, you will not explore the world on your own, you will be taken leveling way too fast imo, you actually are taken the best time of a game, when everything is new and you just run around and can find new things and places. i think a real noob is rather discouraged continuing to play if he gets ganked permanently by some hi lvl chars, cause he had some bad advice by a friend to remove the le at mc5

My point exactly, if you remove you le and join a clan you say "kill me" to not just reds but neutrals and sometimes even allies (at ops) simply because the clans at war with each other. If you remove your le you become a pvp'er if you want to or not, and believe it or not Nidhogg a three or four /30 characters couldn't take a /65. Unless he really sucks at pvp.

[Faid]

PPU support is another issue to consider, Many people take their le's out so they can be supported by a non le'd PPU when lvling as most ppu's are non le'd. It's a no win situation really with the LE, hard core pvp'ers cry about there being too many people running around with their le's in and not having enough people to gank. But when the person who gets ganked complains he gets a response of "you shouldnt have taken your le out".

I agreee with NIdhogg in that I dont think it would work to well if you had to keep your le in until a certain rank - and whats the reason for it? So the 10 - 20 people that fight at MB zoneline can save themselves a SL hit. This game is full of assholes and that solution wouldn't fix the problem.

I do think that it should be considered greifing though, people who purposely cause others harm by fucking up their SL is lame and should be treated as an exploit of the SL system itself, the same as sympbitching.

[Zheo]

PPU support is another issue to consider, Many people take their le's out so they can be supported by a non le'd PPU when lvling as most ppu's are non le'd. It's a no win situation really with the LE, hard core pvp'ers cry about there being too many people running around with their le's in and not having enough people to gank. But when the person who gets ganked complains he gets a response of "you shouldnt have taken your le out".

I agreee with NIdhogg in that I dont think it would work to well if you had to keep your le in until a certain rank - and whats the reason for it? So the 10 - 20 people that fight at MB zoneline can save themselves a SL hit. This game is full of assholes and that solution wouldn't fix the problem.

I do think that it should be considered greifing though, people who purposely cause others harm by fucking up their SL is lame and should be treated as an exploit of the SL system itself, the same as sympbitching.

The problem with that is, "Are we sure it's griefplay" "if it is, do we fix the persons soullight or leave them with the neg sl."