[MERGED] CM symp/SL

[aKe`cj]

@topic:

We are working on possible solutions concerning the CM issue.Right now, evaluation on the testserver is still ongoing, therefore I cant comment in detail at this time. If everything works to our satisfaction, we'll see the changes go live with retail patch #157

jfyi... translation might not be 100% accurate


@level-zones:
In my opinion an easy fix would be to simply copy the pattern used for city-zones... maybe without rewards for killing enemies - but only punishment for allied / neutral kills. Maybe SnowCrash could consider such a change?

[Dribble Joy]

I don't see why there can't be no penalties for killing an enemy in a hunting zone, dunno about rewards (faction may consider you to be doing somethign a bit lame for them to give you something).

As to changes to CM without a wholesale rework of SL/Symp, I am concerned. It has to be done perfectly or CM will go nowhere or turn into a ganksters paradise.

[aKe`cj]

I don't see why there can't be no penalties for killing an enemy in a hunting zone, dunno about rewards (faction may consider you to be doing somethign a bit lame for them to give you something).

Imo a CA killing a fellow Ca or a TT in the plaza1 sewer should receive similar penalties to killing the victim in plaza1 itself... atm a CA would get the same punishment for killing a TG down there - and thats what needs to be changed imo. hostile = no punishment!

[Mr Kot]

Imo a CA killing a fellow Ca or a TT in the plaza1 sewer should receive similar penalties to killing the victim in plaza1 itself... atm a CA would get the same punishment for killing a TG down there - and thats what needs to be changed imo. hostile = no punishment!

I like that idea.

You would need different rules for the caves out in the wastes tho.

when some CA guy comes to the dome to kill my allies and then hides in some sidestreet. I get a SL hit for killing an enemy in my own fucking city .. yeah, absolutely fine

you don't HAVE to follow him. Just regard it as if he zoned into a safezone. No kill = no penalty.

[John Wu]

yes I have to, or else he will just heal up and continue what he was doing. its ridiculous that I can't kill an enemy of the dome inside the dome without punishment. he surely isnt there to level in our sidestreets

[Zheo]

I don't see why there can't be no penalties for killing an enemy in a hunting zone, dunno about rewards (faction may consider you to be doing somethign a bit lame for them to give you something).

As to changes to CM without a wholesale rework of SL/Symp, I am concerned. It has to be done perfectly or CM will go nowhere or turn into a ganksters paradise.

My concerin exactly DJ, If KK turn CM into a bloody fetish faction i will go ape on their asses!

[Bugs Gunny]

Zheo, we were CM at one point. We were probably the only mercs that had jobs and we made a total of 6.5 mil off contract killings.
I'd like to see you try that.

[Spermy]

Apparently it ain't griefplay. Is there any particular reason you came to this conclusion KK?

With the soullight rules as they are now, it's pretty easy to use that tactic to force someone out of play for a fair few hours. Sometimes ( depending on the character they play, not everyone has stealth) a day.

How in the world can this not be counted as griefplay? By being a cunt, and carrying out those actions leading to a red SL markup on whoever was unlucky enough to hit you, you're denying them time in neocron, that they pay for.

A move like this merely reinforces the general opinion that PvP is not viable. There are plenty of other places that this shitty tactic can ( and has) been used, and will continue to be employed.

Can someone please explain the reasoning behind the decision? It seems a bit of a faux par,

[Nidhogg]

Thread merged. There are changes in test that hopefully should make this a moot issue in the next patch.

N

[aKe`cj]

There are plenty of other places that this shitty tactic can ( and has) been used, and will continue to be employed.

Can someone please explain the reasoning behind the decision? It seems a bit of a faux par,

There are plenty of places where this shitty tactic can not be employed .. unfortunately most of these places do feature more than 15m² fight-area near a syncline and therefore require skill or even teamplay with the risk (onoz.. did I say RISK in pvp ) of needing a poker. Life sucks.

[Zheo]

Thread merged. There are changes in test that hopefully should make this a moot issue in the next patch.

N

No eta though then?

And Bugs, I what I said, I said because if fetish where CM, and just killed for fun, and then the whole of CM was full of people like that, then it would give the faction a large change from being Neutral to being red, you may have noticed the number of people that attack LPN already, well we didn't start any of those fights, and at the beginning we gave a great load of space for anyone who did attack us.

I see fetish as a "thug clan" (not that theres anything wrong with what you do) It's just the role play you do, which i like to be honest, fetish makes a great BD clan, but I dont think it'd be so good at city mercs. (Selling drugs and beating up ol ladies for protection money) isn't realy a CM thing hehe

[Spermy]

Thread merged. There are changes in test that hopefully should make this a moot issue in the next patch.

N

Good to hear. The statement I read seemed to be lacking in that detail - fingers crossed it does the job.

There are plenty of places where this shitty tactic can not be employed .. unfortunately most of these places do feature more than 15m² fight-area near a syncline and therefore require skill or even teamplay with the risk (onoz.. did I say RISK in pvp ) of needing a poker. Life sucks.

1) PvP is PvP. Anywhere. You die, you drop a belt, you lose an item, you get pokes. Big deal. Those who can't accept that should keep the LE in ( which a quick browse through many of my posts on that issue will show.)

2) There are indeed plenty of places you Cannot employ this tactic, They are called safezones. There are others yes, but as long as this tactic is viable that point is irrelevant. It's possible to disrupt others ( paid) ingame time. Thats the only thing that should matter.

3) Yeah.. risk in pvp.. what's your point? Are you under the impression I'm a supporter of the MB zonewhores? This is not a complaint about PvP, or where I can and cannoit engage. This is about arseholes running around trying to sabotage it.

It could be CM at MB. It could be a Green anywhere else.

[yuuki]

There are plenty of places where this shitty tactic can not be employed .. unfortunately most of these places do feature more than 15m² fight-area near a syncline and therefore require skill or even teamplay with the risk (onoz.. did I say RISK in pvp ) of needing a poker. Life sucks.

well actually on mars this nice tactic has been employed in el farid inside the cave and all ppl who just leveled there with aoe dropped to -99sl/symp. then when they left they were ganked by the team at the gr and their belts hacked. that's what the problem is, and btw i don't like the mb fights either, but that using noob chars to just ruin some other players sl (and i mean normal 'law abiding citizen') is not termed griefplay is beyond my understanding. when these ppl then start to sympbitch it is an abuse.

the whole sl system is not protecting anyone anywhere, it just ruins the game for some ppl unlucky enuff to encounter some other runner that exploit it. imo until you come up with some reasonable sl/symp idea just leave it fixed at 100 for each faction and turn off the sl rules in all secs.
most ppl i know aren't afraid to die, but are afraid to be bound sitting in th for some weeks to regain their sl.

[Bugs Gunny]

Zheo, when we were CM we used to do things like parashuting a full pe squad out of a doy carrrier at max altitude, take contracts, hell we even provided the carriers for the cm faction at the ceres disk storyline event.
Off course, 50k per soldier didn't go down too well with the guys since we lost two carriers in the fighting, mr redcloud unfortunatly ran into some stray bullets that day

But i hope CM gets fixed, since they are indeed more shafted than the outzone bums right now.

[Zheo]

I agree that soullight is more open to exploitation than child labour, but a system to protect noobs is needed. However if things where sorted out right it would work fine. For example if you couldn't remove your le till you where say **/30 then it would maybe put people off creating a symp/soullight destroyer. Or if certain zones had their rules altered, like MB for example being an outskirts sector, so you lose less for killing a neutral and green. Or remove the sl penalties for runners under the /30 rank. However post many warnings about it.