[MERGED] CM symp/SL

[Dribble Joy]

A reply to the situation here.


Not sure what I make of it. Though personally the whole SL/symp system needs a complete overhaul so that faction relations are appropriately represented.

[Brammers]

Just for those who can't be bothered to click on the link and find the important bits.

Quick progress report on the alleged griefing tactic whereby CM chars are used specifically for the purpose of destroying SL. This has now been assigned to QA who will investigate and report back. We'll then have a short internal meeting to discuss the results before making an announcement. I can't give you a date for the announcement because it depends on the QA analysis but I'll report back as soon as there's more progress.

I'll also post this in the Comm Talk thread...

N

QA report is in and the decision has been taken that this tactic is not to be classed as griefing. If you wish to discuss this (and I'm guessing that you will) please do so in Comm Talk. This thread is for Q&A only.

N

Edit: I'll post on this in a minute....

[Dribble Joy]

Wait.. so this isn't about CMs and their SL situation... but people making/using CM chars to provoke people into shooting them so they loose SL?

It's a bit iffy, but I think I might agree with KK on this one.

[Bugs Gunny]

It's NOT griefing eh?
The soullight and faction relations rules brought in with evo 2.1 are the worst version since NC1 went retail.
The person that came up with them probably made them up with a serious hangover on a monday morning.
There has never been soullight rules which have been so easy to manipulate, explode or be aplied for griefing.
I've posted many many ways in which it would be possible for people to plain harass levelers and get all their red soullight belts.
When i once went in a cave, killed the first person i saw the people further up in the cave (who were not teamed) went red sl. Sweet leaf and me went and killed them all. About 20 minutes later i got contacted by a gm about it.
So. When i go -99sl it means i don't realy care about it, i have my friends to pick up my stuff when i die. So all i do is send in a pe that goes in the aoe to die, then i log my combat/hacking alt and harvest.
You guys have NO idea what you started.

As for the CM thing:
*me unpokes his cm spy, specs some extra hack and puts all his armor in the cabinets*


I don't do this because i enjoy being a general asshat (people who know me would say i'm not). I am going to do all this to prove to KK that they should put some more thought into things they come up with, and at least have the dignity to acknowledge it when it's a screwed up situation.

I allready offer my appologies for the extra work the gms are going to have the next few days. I know you guys are doing a good job, and hey, it's nothing personal.....

[Brammers]

Wait.. so this isn't about CMs and their SL situation... but people making/using CM chars to provoke people into shooting them so they loose SL?

It's a bit iffy, but I think I might agree with KK on this one.

Erm yeah. People are making 0/2's with no LE and CON to run infront of a MB zoneline fight and die, forcing the player to loose SL and FS when he was trying to fight a red runner.

Going back to your original point, the current SL/FS does not work for City Mercs. A pro-runner or a anti-runner can kill NPC's to recover SL/FS. City Mercs cannot do this, as they are neutral to everyone. Therefore the City Mercs faction is not balanced.

Here is one idea to get the City Mercs faction playable, and I think it would make life a lot more interesting for City Merc players.

Every 3 days, the City Merc's neutral status changes towards 2 factions to hostile for 3 days only.

One faction is a pro-NC faction and the other is a pro-DoY Faction. If you want the RP reason for this, City Admin are upset that a Crahn runner distrubuted a leaflet in Techhaven claiming Reeza is a secret member of the Brotherhood of Crahn. City Admin have their hands full with other matters, so they hire the mercs to take care of Crahn.
At the same time, a runner from Biotech spilt his drink on a hooker in Pepper Park who is Madame Veronique's sister's daughter. She hires the mercs for payback, as that dress was expensive.

The reasons to why they have to shoot a pro-runner or an anti-runner doesn't have to be explained to the player. (It would be good if it was explained, and it doesn't have to tie into the storyline.) All they have to understand they are the guns for hire, and they have been hired to kill.

So each time a CM logs in, they check their F5 window, and they go and shoot some reds. Members of the other factions will need to check their faction standings everyday to make sure that their own faction is not on the CM's "Target of the day" list.

So how does this fix the SL/FS problem? Well quite simply they have red's to shoot.

[Jodo]

I'm assuming its the same for all of you but lets go through it one step at a time.
I choose to have a Pro city runner. This means I cannot visit DoY without getting shot to pieces. Very upsetting, but a fact of the game.
I choose to have an Anti city runner. This means I cannot visit Neocron without getting shot to pieces. Very upsetting, but a fact of the game.
I choose to have a CM runner. This means I can go ANYWHERE (good for a barter skiller), but I'm not really trusted by either side. Very upsetting, but a fact of the game.
So, when I choose to be a CM, I accept these certain conditions just the same as accepting the conditions when joining Pro or Anti factions.

I understand that CM runners seem to be victimised by certain players running in front of "line of fire". Very upsetting, but now a product of the players, as well as the game.
I was Told in n1, "if you don't wanna PvP, then use an LE". It sounded a little unfair because I never bothered anyone in such a manner.
Now the reverse, but equally unfair option is being put to CM runners.
"If you don’t wanna get stuck with bad SL & symp, check you're fire or choose ANY other faction".
My heart bleeds...

[Zheo]

Dont have time to post what i want to so i'll do that later, but I did have a discussion with a GM about this, and he argued that the current soul light situation "benfits" CM's on a role play issue in that we cant just randomly pk in city sectors etc.

I could have argued with him about it, but since it wouldn't change anything right then I saw little point, all he could do is send a "report" to be filed away somewhere...

[SorkZmok]

God, i really doubt ANYONE from KK is actually seriously playing this game. Because then you'd see how you just once again fucked people over.

[Pantho]

God, i really doubt ANYONE from KK is actually seriously playing this game. Because then you'd see how you just once again fucked people over.

We are the Ants, KK Are the Kids with the Hammers

Fucking us over, btw why can i say fuck but not... ******** , lol.... r*pe (* = a )

[Brammers]

Dont have time to post what i want to so i'll do that later, but I did have a discussion with a GM about this, and he argued that the current soul light situation "benfits" CM's on a role play issue in that we cant just randomly pk in city sectors etc.

Can you post this discussion up? Granted, as a CM you can't gank in city sectors without a SL penalty, and the same is true in reverse, but I don't see that as a major benefit.

[Mr Kot]

It's NOT griefing eh?
The soullight and faction relations rules brought in with evo 2.1 are the worst version since NC1 went retail.

The whole point of this was to limit the newb killing, ally killing and PK of levellers in caves. The soullight rules haven't caused me the slightest headache because i do none of the above.

i once went in a cave, killed the first person i saw

My point exactly. If you don't want the time.. don't do the crime

A pro-runner or a anti-runner can kill NPC's to recover SL/FS. City Mercs cannot do this, as they are neutral to everyone. Therefore the City Mercs faction is not balanced.

CityMercs are still hostile to Anarchy Breed. A possible solution would be a patch where AB vandal kills would gain them a little soullight. There would still be a risk involved as you would have to leave a safezone and be tracked on the NCPD.

[Brammers]

CityMercs are still hostile to Anarchy Breed. A possible solution would be a patch where AB vandal kills would gain them a little soullight. There would still be a risk involved as you would have to leave a safezone and be tracked on the NCPD.

Ahh Anarchy Breed, didn't think of that faction - not a bad idea. As for being tracked on NCPD, well thats the same risk all around for any runner with low SL.

[Dribble Joy]

Surely CMs can kill red SL people and regain SL?

Anyway as I have said many many many times allready, a purely symp based system would work much better, or if you want to look at it another way, faction specific SL. So killing CMs would only loose you CM symp/SL and not affect your standings with CA or anyone else.

[CMaster]

Surely CMs can kill red SL people and regain SL?

Which red people would those be DJ? Oh you mean red SLers? You havent gained SL for killing red SL people for as long as I have been playing NC, and certainly not now. Also as red SL is now -67 you find VERY few of them.

[Bugs Gunny]

The whole point of this was to limit the newb killing, ally killing and PK of levellers in caves. The soullight rules haven't caused me the slightest headache because i do none of the above.

My point exactly. If you don't want the time.. don't do the crime

I guess you're not reading it right.
Personaly i think there is no valid roleplay reason for someone to lose massive soulllight for killing an enemy in a leveling cave. Besides if you're leveling you should have an le, that's what it's there for. If you kill neutrals or allieds fine take the sl hit.

I myself and many others don't give a damn about soullight. What does this mean then?
Now imagine i'm -99sl not caring, i go in. When i gank people i won't drop lower. They usualy don't stand a chance unless they have a good ppu or more ppus with them. Now if they do happen to kill me i have a buddy pick up my belt, they lose sl, then get killed by my teammate and drop possible highslotted leveling weapons, sometimes even rares.

I'm not someone that's out to grief people, otherwise i would have been pulling a "[ edited ]" on people for months at mb. However due to KK's blatant ignorance in the whole griefing possibilities and their suborn belief in the current soullight system i WILL go on a campaing doing all those things that are not considered griefing, but annoys the hell out of people.

Sure it's annoying to stealth into viaroso and kill the biotech npcs, especialy with a whole team of people waiting for you, but it's possible.

And oh boy, the poor mercs. They defend themselves in the wrong zone and they go red sl, waiting it off for days in techhaven. I actualy got a cs from a cm belt when he came to defend his op.

Doesn't KK notice that the CM faction is near dead?
Didn't they simulate griefing posibilities when they came up with the new soullight rules?
Wait, let me guess, the person that came up with them "hardly has time to play neocron at home, and when he does he logs on his tradeskiller char."