1. #1

    Arrow PvE: AoE vs. Single target leveling

    Hello everyone!

    This will be a rather quick thread to discuss the levelling meta and more specifically Area of Effect (AoE) and Single target levelling methods in the game and why I think it's important to take another direction when it comes to the levelling experience in Neocron, especially for new comers. A few of the things I'll talk about, I'm not even sure how it truly works, feel free to correct me!

    Here is a simple table of how it's done for now if you want to be effective:

    PE AoE Drones
    Spy AoE Drones
    GenTank AoE Heavy
    Monk AoE APU

    Not fully aware of how the rare mini rocket pistol performs for levelling

    The way I understand it is that XP gain is streamlined across the game. And my guess is that it has to do with

    1. Tech level (TL) of your weapon
    2. Mob level
    3. Damage/sec or amount of mobs damaged

    I don't know if this would even be technically possible in the game but I thought single target damage would be about 80 to 85% as effective as AoE for levelling stats (AoE needs to remain #1 in XP speed - a painful but faster way to max out your character). I do realise a lot of issues are centered around game performance or PvP, but one of Neocron's great strength is its replayability and class/profession choices, thus I feel it is important that a) New comers don't feel like their choice are just plain wrong in view of capping a character and b) Veterans get a new fun way to level up a character.

    PPU XP could also be tuned to be better - Perhaps give more XP for amount of HP healed (I think this system is in the game right now but really low).

    This would push not only weapon variety in PvE but also exploring around in various zones instead of the "hey, if you ain't doing AoE on 10+ mobs in Regant or Ceres labs, then you are doing it wrong".

  2. #2


    I'm not sure how the XP system works, because it seems to be highly linked to the cash reward too.

    When they are double xp events, we also get double cash reward.

    Maybe there is nothing the devs can do to change the xp formula. It seems everything is linked purely on what you stated:

    WeaponTL & monster BR & damage done.

    In the code there are no distinction between weapons being used and therefor we cannot apply more XP to single target.

    If that happens to be true, what we should be doing is removing the XP requirement of WOC and instead get the WOC behind a long series of hard quests. That way we don't need to min/max our XP because WOC overcap is not a thing anymore.

    It wouldn't fix all issues, but at least some.

  3. #3


    Further to this discussion it seems that one way would be XP rewarded per mob type (according to Zoltan). Apparently this is a setting that can be tweaked, and if that's the case, it would be possible to allow single target leveling in some way (more XP on firemobs, hoverbombers, warbots, etc. - as you aren't likely to barrel those mobs).

    Would be an idea to try this first in Hacknet perhaps?

  4. #4
    former king of saturn
    Join Date
    February 2003


    I think the best way to improve the leveling meta is to make existing missions (such as Epics) provide a truly rewarding amount of XP. I'd be fine with an improvement to single-target XP as well but I think the best way to change the leveling curve for new comers, and hell even some of us old players, would be by uncoupling from the grind.

    I'v never done the DoY mission. I'll never do the Advanced Hovertek mission. The list goes on and on because I'm not motivated by items unless I need them for a char build. If those (in addition to many other) missions were a very significant source of XP it would give me a reason to run them that I just don't have now.

    The reason we all want people playing this game is because we want to interact with them at some point -- for them to make the game world more lively. Grinding XP by hunkering down and killing 1000000 of <mob name here> is isolating and the result is that person is playing an MMO alone.

    Getting people chasing missions across the world will be time consuming and will show them glimpses of the game they may never have if they aren't the kind of player that just wants to grind the same mob, alone, to cap.

  5. #5


    The XP portion where you mentioned the TL of your weapon is only partially true. I believe (from experimentation, not from looking at the code) that the relevant number is actually your Combat Rank, not just the weapon TL. This is sometimes important, as you can minimize your Combat Rank by doing things like removing your armor and unnecessary (for the fight you are engaging in) implants, as well as not training resistances you don't need. This is due to one part of the equation being what used to be called XP-proration in game design roughly 10 million years ago. Basically, the closer your Combat Rank to a creatures rank means lower XP, and once you're higher than the creature, a STEEP drop-off in XP. That's part of the equation.

    That being said, I have ALSO noticed that the higher TL of your weapon, it seems the more XP you get per kill, as long as you don't trigger the diminishing returns caused by XP-proration. This part is conjecture, I have not made a comprehensive study of this effect yet. It MIGHT just be XP-proration based on Combat Rank and nothing to do with the weapons TL (other than it's effect on your Combat Rank). Take with a grain of salt.

    I have a leveling spot that I use when starting new characters that (while not being a cheat, I've checked with the GMs) is quite amazing in it's ability for me not to wear armor, not to train ANY resistances, and not need ANY implants. I max out the XP on the creature per kill, rarely if ever even get hurt (and can survive it anyway when I do), and kill it increasingly rapidly as my stats go up and I am thereby able to increase the TL of my weapon. I can get all the way up to using a Pain Easer on this mid-range critter before triggering the XP-proration drop, and max out the XP I get per kill. This of course is not a big deal COMPARED to the VAST AMOUNTS of xp to be had by just using AOE, but I can't bring myself to bring up a character on AOE (I did one, and that is it for me, don't even use the character, I felt so dirty).

    Last edited by Jesse; 17-08-20 at 02:37.

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