1. #1

    Default Weapon Damage Project or Not ?

    Hello Everyone as first i apologyze for the bad english...
    I made this post because i would like to get some real Informations about the " weapon balance "
    I would like to know very simple things like :
    -Do something will change in weapon dmg in PvE / PvP or not ?
    -If not because GMs wants " balance PvP dmg " is there a way to get better PvE damage ?
    I think about something like a special MOD named " Grim Executor " that double damage in PvE or only against NPC and reduce damage by 50% in PvP or against a PC...
    I know that GMs reduce max health of some Mobs but it's still not enough imo... just look at the difference on a Creed before & after weapon balance , no lie , same char , same weapon , same Terrormauler...
    Creed DMG.jpg
    Ok creed's dmg could be little high... but it does JUST 3.64x less dmg.... ( 164 x 3.64 = 596.96 ) it sound too much for me...
    That's why i ask , i just wanna know if it will remain like this or not...
    Sorry for distrubing people about this one more time but i do really love this game...

  2. #2

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    Additional Information :
    Just another exemple , comparative dmg / stats on a S.T.O.R.M laser TL 90 and Creed rare lasercannon tl 114
    The Rare one just do 23 more dmg per hit and 8/min fast shooting AND -16 meter less range
    Attachment 12818
    Of course i shoot the " head " i mean the top of the Hitbox...
    What the real point to use a rare weapon like this so... , and for this exemple the Creed is a Hunting weapon...
    this is just for a complete exemple of the real problem for me, i dont speak about the tons of ammo needed for kill a /64 raptor etc....
    Oh yeah and last thing , if you just wanna reply " i can use it , no problem for me stfu you noob " don't lose your time i just want some REAL answers...
    Thanks for reading

  3. #3

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    So ? no one for answer ? do gms didn't said anything on weapon balance project ?

  4. #4
    Neocron Support Team Xanthos's Avatar
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    We have lowered the Mob HP in general, also improved "Mob Armour" (Yes, even a Mob has armour in NC).
    It's still a thing we're working on.

    Just tested the DMG Output on my own, seems okay to me, tbh - But we can discuss it, ofc, and after this we can decide what to do.

    Related to your second post:
    Creed deals more damage, which is fine.
    You also have to consider:
    Stats (Frequence, Handling etc.) + your own Skills (Creed needs more HC as the STORM Laser for instance, and the Creed weapon has a higher TL).
    Xanthos
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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthos View Post
    We have lowered the Mob HP in general, also improved "Mob Armour" (Yes, even a Mob has armour in NC).
    It's still a thing we're working on.

    Just tested the DMG Output on my own, seems okay to me, tbh - But we can discuss it, ofc, and after this we can decide what to do.

    Related to your second post:
    Creed deals more damage, which is fine.
    You also have to consider:
    Stats (Frequence, Handling etc.) + your own Skills (Creed needs more HC as the STORM Laser for instance, and the Creed weapon has a higher TL).
    Wouldn't you agree that the damage values on the higher end of the spectrum are a bit too close together?

    It feels as if from TL 85 to 115 the difference is very small.

    Maybe Rares should be a bit easier to overcap?

    Can you link me the Post where Aegir went in depth on thr weapon calculations? Can't find it anywhere...

  6. #6
    Neocron Support Team Xanthos's Avatar
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    This one? https://forum.neocron-game.com/showt...39#post2236939

    I'm still "new" to the Balancing, so I need to have deep looks by myself, tbh.


    X.
    Xanthos
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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthos View Post
    This one? https://forum.neocron-game.com/showt...39#post2236939

    I'm still "new" to the Balancing, so I need to have deep looks by myself, tbh.


    X.
    Thank you!

    Ah that was actually me in that threath, couldn't remember =)!

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xanthos View Post
    This one? https://forum.neocron-game.com/showt...39#post2236939

    I'm still "new" to the Balancing, so I need to have deep looks by myself, tbh.


    X.
    Alright Thank you Xanthos.

    So to summarize my current understanding:

    - High TL weaponry requires a high Weaponry Skill (H-C, P-C, etc.) to be used to its full potential.
    - For example switching from a TL90 to a TL115 Weapon nets 31 Damage with H-C 275.
    - This promotes PA's, Drugs and PPU buffs.

    As I sit here i see nothing wrong with that. It actually seems to be in a rather sweet spot.

    I do have 2 more questions though:

    - Are PPU Shields and Heals in the same way affected?
    - What about APU spells?
    - I did some tests earlier today on my Hybrid, and it seemed that for APU modules the highest usable Spell (even with barely enough APU) still produces the most damage -> flawed testing on my part or different calculation?

    Thanks a lot!

  9. #9

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    Ok i'm happy to see that i'm not totally alone here... one more time excuse me for bad english... but :
    - what's the point to get RARE weapon that do tl60 like damage... before this when you get a rare weapon you were so super happy to see the high damage / freq compare to the unrare weapon... no it's finish...
    - what's the point to make all the weapon " burst mode " like the healing light or the ravager who were double barrel / triple barrel , for be simple you shoot 1 shot it does 2 or 3 dmg in a short delay...
    - is it that the " weapon balance project " to make all the weapon almost the same damage from tl 80 to 115 rare / woc and pistol / rifle / heavy ??? because guys a tl 93 pain easer do 3x50 dmg and a tl 114 WOC car47 do 4x41 ..... i don't talk about the 2x90 of a healing that use to do 2x400 on a full damage spy.... if the project was to make all weapon balance , JOB DONE all the weapons are a crappy version of the weapon at the tl 60 ....
    - everything is a matter of solo farm , we are not 5000 players , so if Gms wanted to make more " immersive " and more " realistic " PVP i'm fine with that but guys you totally destroyed the solo farming , the rare farming i'm suprised to be alone to complain about those crappy damage of " rare " weapons...
    I've waited for years to see if that " weapon balance project " will sove REAL problems like (for example) :
    - 1 mag of car-47 in 2.5 seconds = 800dmg + 400 poison dot dmg , that was a real problem
    - Holy frostration that do 57 dmg on an unbuffed spy , that was a real problem
    - 1 hit of MIRL that instant kill everyone in the zone of effect including the shooter , that was a real problem
    BUT people that can farm rare parts with RARE weapons on /110 /120 fire "pretty easely" was not a real problem , was not a problem at all but now it's just very painful / long / boring /useless because you'll get rare parts of crappy dmg rare weapons...
    All the others things are great , new textures , new graphics , new armors , new PA , FINALLY NO MORE DECIMALS ON IMPS is just super great!!!! GJ guys i love you for that!!! but please do something for the weapon damage.... it's impossible to do 160 with the highest tl heavy rare weapon only made for hunt...

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZoomTHX View Post
    Ok i'm happy to see that i'm not totally alone here... one more time excuse me for bad english... but :
    - what's the point to get RARE weapon that do tl60 like damage... before this when you get a rare weapon you were so super happy to see the high damage / freq compare to the unrare weapon... no it's finish...
    - what's the point to make all the weapon " burst mode " like the healing light or the ravager who were double barrel / triple barrel , for be simple you shoot 1 shot it does 2 or 3 dmg in a short delay...
    - is it that the " weapon balance project " to make all the weapon almost the same damage from tl 80 to 115 rare / woc and pistol / rifle / heavy ??? because guys a tl 93 pain easer do 3x50 dmg and a tl 114 WOC car47 do 4x41 ..... i don't talk about the 2x90 of a healing that use to do 2x400 on a full damage spy.... if the project was to make all weapon balance , JOB DONE all the weapons are a crappy version of the weapon at the tl 60 ....
    - everything is a matter of solo farm , we are not 5000 players , so if Gms wanted to make more " immersive " and more " realistic " PVP i'm fine with that but guys you totally destroyed the solo farming , the rare farming i'm suprised to be alone to complain about those crappy damage of " rare " weapons...
    I've waited for years to see if that " weapon balance project " will sove REAL problems like (for example) :
    - 1 mag of car-47 in 2.5 seconds = 800dmg + 400 poison dot dmg , that was a real problem
    - Holy frostration that do 57 dmg on an unbuffed spy , that was a real problem
    - 1 hit of MIRL that instant kill everyone in the zone of effect including the shooter , that was a real problem
    BUT people that can farm rare parts with RARE weapons on /110 /120 fire "pretty easely" was not a real problem , was not a problem at all but now it's just very painful / long / boring /useless because you'll get rare parts of crappy dmg rare weapons...
    All the others things are great , new textures , new graphics , new armors , new PA , FINALLY NO MORE DECIMALS ON IMPS is just super great!!!! GJ guys i love you for that!!! but please do something for the weapon damage.... it's impossible to do 160 with the highest tl heavy rare weapon only made for hunt...
    In generall I understand where you are coming from, but actually the new system makes sense.

    The new thinking is:

    If you want a substantial amount of benefit from a rare

    You need a substantial amount of P-C. R-C, H-C etc.

    This means that PPU Buffs, Drugs, PA's and Skillpoint distributions are much more important than before.

    Also I do think that the damage value currently does NOT affect the damage, but this will be implemented in the future, could a DEV verify this?

  11. #11
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Is this problem the PVE damage of weapons? I am trying to pick through the ideas as I am curious. You want a more beefy upgrade in damage to your guns? or do you just want to see larger numbers? or is it a % you want to see get increased as you chew chunks of health off a target?

    It started off with good points about pve but youve strayed into pvp territory and there its got convoluted. The two should never be compared and contrasted because there is too much that could go wrong if you try to treat them as one entity is all. If you want to nuke grim chasers for big numbers i am sure that is (relatively) easily achieved by changing pve damage/mob health so it looks like youve got 5-10% chunks being ripped off per hit but if you are talking about buffed players its a whole different ball game.
    Last edited by William Antrim; 20-03-19 at 17:36.
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    Is this problem the PVE damage of weapons? I am trying to pick through the ideas as I am curious. You want a more beefy upgrade in damage to your guns? or do you just want to see larger numbers? or is it a % you want to see get increased as you chew chunks of health off a target?

    It started off with good points about pve but youve strayed into pvp territory and there its got convoluted. The two should never be compared and contrasted because there is too much that could go wrong if you try to treat them as one entity is all. If you want to nuke grim chasers for big numbers i am sure that is (relatively) easily achieved by changing pve damage/mob health so it looks like youve got 5-10% chunks being ripped off per hit but if you are talking about buffed players its a whole different ball game.
    I think the feeling for the progression when switching to a higher TL weapon is not as strong.

    I understand that this is disappointing but as a tradeoff the current system allows for much more variety.

    I'm in favour of the current system, a PvE Bonus for Rare weapons would be worth thinking about though, considering they are hard to get.

  13. #13
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    So his perception that this new gun should be visibly more beefy than his previous one is his issue? If its that simple then that should be easy to fix.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    So his perception that this new gun should be visibly more beefy than his previous one is his issue? If its that simple then that should be easy to fix.
    For PvE I'd be in favour, but I do like that so many weapons are viable in PvP.

  15. #15

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    As i said before they can " easely " create a PvE mod that increase damage by 50 or 100 % ( at least ) and ALSO decrease PvP dmg by the same 50-100 % , so those weapon are only viable for hunting and totally useless in PvP after you put on the " PvE Mod "...
    I really think there is something to do this way , so no need to touch the " real " dmg and no change in PvP...

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