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  1. #1
    Neocron Support Team Aegir's Avatar
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    Default Patch R#232-T#80

    A new Patch is available for Vedeena!

    Balancing

    • Armor and Resistance efficiency changed
      This is a huge change for both PvE and PvP - and is far from finished. The efficiency of armor compared to resists has been reduced alot. Please test extensively and report any weapons/classes/setups/damagetypes that fall out of line.
    • Slight damage reduction for Psi Attack Modules and Baseball Bats, performance of pure force weaponry was too good on certain targets
    • Damage of all vehicles reduced
    • Anti-Air and Anti-Vehicle Launchers damage against vehicles has been increased significantly, lowered against players
    • STR based AoE weaponry and mini Rocket Launcher have recieved a major increase in accuracy, their damage has been lowered a bit to compensate.
    • Projectile speeds of rockets, fusion and ray projectiles have been increased (Malediction, Doom Beamer, Moon Striker, Mini Rocket Launcher, etc...)
    • AoE drones damage reduced a bit
    • Vehicle gunner seat weapons STR and Subskill requirements reduced:
      • Laser Cannon is now STR 78 (was 90)
      • 30mm Cannon is now STR 67 (was 75)
      • Adv. 30mm Cannon is now STR 71 (was 85)
      • 20mm Cannon is now STR 39 (was 61)
      • Adv. 20mm Cannon is now STR 76 (was 79)
      • Rocket Launcher is now STR 49 (was 68)
      • DoY Rocket Launcher is now STR 73 (was 92)
      • DoY Gatling Cannon is now STR 71 (was 82)
      • Double Rocket Launcher is now STR 20 (was 24)
      • Raygun Cannon is now STR 88 (was 96)
      • DoY Improved Gatling Cannon is now 78 (was 84)
    • NPC Damage has been reduced across the board
    • NPC Health has seen an overall reduction, especially for BR < 40 *1


    Known Issues
    • 1) This step has not worked like intended, fix is on the way!


    Please note: All weapons (and vehicles) damage output is subject to change once resists/armor have been adjusted to reasonable levels - aiming for a roughly identical time to kill (in pvp) as Titan currently. NPC health and damage output will be looked at after doing that.
    Last edited by Aegir; 09-08-17 at 02:51. Reason: Added note to end of post.
    Aegir
    Balancing
    Neocron Support Team
    N E O C R O N - G A M E . C O M

    »The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.«
    ― Terry Pratchett, Diggers

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  2. #2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aegir View Post
    A new Patch is available for Vedeena!

    Balancing

    • Armor and Resistance efficiency changed
      This is a huge change for both PvE and PvP - and is far from finished. The efficiency of armor compared to resists has been reduced alot. Please test extensively and report any weapons/classes/setups/damagetypes that fall out of line.
    • Slight damage reduction for Psi Attack Modules and Baseball Bats, performance of pure force weaponry was too good on certain targets
    • Damage of all vehicles reduced
    • Anti-Air and Anti-Vehicle Launchers damage against vehicles has been increased significantly, lowered against players
    • STR based AoE weaponry and mini Rocket Launcher have recieved a major increase in accuracy, their damage has been lowered a bit to compensate.
    • Projectile speeds of rockets, fusion and ray projectiles have been increased (Malediction, Doom Beamer, Moon Striker, Mini Rocket Launcher, etc...)
    • AoE drones damage reduced a bit
    • Vehicle gunner seat weapons STR and Subskill requirements reduced:
      • Laser Cannon is now STR 78 (was 90)
      • 30mm Cannon is now STR 67 (was 75)
      • Adv. 30mm Cannon is now STR 71 (was 85)
      • 20mm Cannon is now STR 39 (was 61)
      • Adv. 20mm Cannon is now STR 76 (was 79)
      • Rocket Launcher is now STR 49 (was 68)
      • DoY Rocket Launcher is now STR 73 (was 92)
      • DoY Gatling Cannon is now STR 71 (was 82)
      • Double Rocket Launcher is now STR 20 (was 24)
      • Raygun Cannon is now STR 88 (was 96)
      • DoY Improved Gatling Cannon is now 78 (was 84)
    • NPC Damage has been reduced across the board
    • NPC Health has seen an overall reduction, especially for BR < 40 *1


    Known Issues
    • 1) This step has not worked like intended, fix is on the way!
    Well done loosing more players.

  3. #3
    Neocron Support Team Aegir's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PaIn_EaSeR1337 View Post
    Well done loosing more players.
    Do you mind giving me more information? What do you think is bad change? Have you tested the change?
    Aegir
    Balancing
    Neocron Support Team
    N E O C R O N - G A M E . C O M

    »The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.«
    ― Terry Pratchett, Diggers

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  4. #4
    Registered User Drake6k's Avatar
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    Default

    Goodbye Neocron. We had a lot of good times. Aegir should be fired. No, I'm not going to explain further or test this shit.

    Say hi to Bob for me.
    Bad Dragon
    Jack Drake
    Run
    My Ppu
    Nipple Goblin

  5. #5
    Neocron Support Team Aegir's Avatar
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    Default

    Added some clarification to the end of the post.

    I cannot read minds - sorry. My guess is your issue is with vehicle damage? If so, some of the vehicles damage output ended up higher than on Titan currently. And will see further adjustment before any release.
    Aegir
    Balancing
    Neocron Support Team
    N E O C R O N - G A M E . C O M

    »The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.«
    ― Terry Pratchett, Diggers

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  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aegir View Post
    Added some clarification to the end of the post.

    I cannot read minds - sorry. My guess is your issue is with vehicle damage? If so, some of the vehicles damage output ended up higher than on Titan currently. And will see further adjustment before any release.
    Have the stats for the new Melee weapons been worked on at all yet? Or do they still have their placeholder values from the DG and PoB, respectively?
    The Melee Pusher

    Patiently waiting when I can use a Greatsaber in the wastes of Neocron

  7. #7
    i carry a laaaazer......blade gstyle40's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Drake6k View Post
    Aegir should be fired. No, I'm not going to explain further or test this shit.

    Say hi to Bob for me.
    a bit harsh dont ya think?
    [Signature removed - please see the forum rules on signature sizes]

  8. #8
    i carry a laaaazer......blade gstyle40's Avatar
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    Default

    if i can get on pts, ill help.
    [Signature removed - please see the forum rules on signature sizes]

  9. #9
    Neocron Support Team Aegir's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gstyle40 View Post
    if i can get on pts, ill help.
    If nothing unexpected happens i'll be online for (european times) tomorrow afternoon and late into the night. I'd appreciate some help.

    Things im particularly interested in:
    • How do the different damage types compare to each other, is there something that falls out of line (e.g. Piercing weaponry as a whole overperforming)?
    • Is there any class or setup combination that turns out way stronger/weaker than others?
    • Do certain classes or setups have too high or too low resistances against a specific damage type? (e.g. Spies suck too hard against fire based weaponry)


    Just contact me in discord when you have time.
    Aegir
    Balancing
    Neocron Support Team
    N E O C R O N - G A M E . C O M

    »The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it.«
    ― Terry Pratchett, Diggers

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  10. #10
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Default

    For me this looks positive on the surface. I guess digging into it it will be a lot different.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Drake6k View Post
    Goodbye Neocron. We had a lot of good times. Aegir should be fired. No, I'm not going to explain further or test this shit.

    Say hi to Bob for me.

    Just jack drake throwing his toys out the pram again because he wants be able to get cheap ganks with one click.
    He said the same last time around when the woc launchers were nerfed and kami drones... Then shortly returned as he understands the nerf was appropriate as the damage fell out of line regarding balance. Some players just like a way to get cheap kills, no problem with that but they need to be balanced correctly.

  12. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Drake6k View Post
    Goodbye Neocron. We had a lot of good times. Aegir should be fired. No, I'm not going to explain further or test this shit.

    Say hi to Bob for me.
    Goodbye Drake6k. I'll take it as a leave-thread.

    @everyone - This is a testserver update NOT retail and it's also still work in progress as aegir stated before.
    Zoltan
    Management • Development • Server Administration
    Neocron Support Team
    N E O C R O N - G A M E . C O M

    »What do you hear? - Nothing but the rain. «

    »I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if hundreds of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened.« - server crash

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  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoltan View Post
    Goodbye Drake6k. I'll take it as a leave-thread.

    @everyone - This is a testserver update NOT retail and it's also still work in progress as aegir stated before.
    Hopefully it doesn't get pushed through until extensive testing is done then. We don't need more reactionary nerf updates.

    For example Kami Drones damage was nerfed because they were hitting more that once, and that i think is the case with all AoE weapons currently including the bomber. More work should be done in fixing the bug where the explosives are hitting more than once instead of decreasing the damage output of the weapons to negate the times that they DO hit more than once/ The Anti-vehicle weapon buff has still not hit retail where the real numbers will likely be gathered because a lot of people don't get on test server, We need the Anti-Vehicle weapons properly tested before we implement any changes to vehicles.

    Fights between some classes right now in RETAIL are brutally short, and fights between others are so long they get boring.

    I'm not trying to be a Buzzkill but we CANNOT keep testing such a huge volume of changes. I can't even get PTS working at the moment. Changes need to happen incrementally to one specific area of the game at a time, If we keep having these broad changes to all the numbers things are just going to keep getting messier. If we want to focus on Explosive weapons and one class lets work on that as well as the vehicles that fire explosives like the Assault Glider, Bomber and Rhino v3. But the kind of damage the direct damage vehicles do should be addressed when we're looking at Direct Damage weapons or more specifically Piercing or Energy damage. Things also need to be looked at froma practical standpoint. Testing damage alone is not going to balance things, you have to look at what class is going to be using that weapons primarily, what their movement speed is like, how fast the crosshair closes, and all of this needs to be done with characters that are built like they would be in the game, testing things with 255 or whatever in every stat is unrealistic.

    To make testing easier we need and area with NPC's that move around and have resists similar to players int he game, have an area with NPC's without "buff resits" then one with NPC's that do. Vehicle weapons needs to be tested IN THE VEHICLE, Not using a gun that fires with the damage of the vehicle weapon. A lot of people are not happy right now. I understand we're trying something new but we need more communication with the community, and the COMMUNITY needs to stop flaming NST over hypothetical situations as well as NST needs to be more receptive to people like Josh and James that do a lot of testing and number crunching that could be working directly with you guys.

    Once again I am more than willing to help with things(Models, Code, Animations, MEDIATING), I know i said i'd be working on models and I still am, I'm just handling the aftermath of a family emergency right now and moving. FISHING POLE COMING SOON.

    Also please port Neocron to Vulkan and stop pursuing DirectX 11 this will help a lot with performance.( I can help with this) We need to properly test the light emitting Particles and Alpha Masking and not just passively dismiss the performance issues they're causing, primarily the fire particles. Dismissing it as Me being on Linux doesn't really seem acceptable when the Canyon is destroying people's FPS right now. I should never dip below 60FPS on a GTX 970, and my other machine has a 1070 now it's also taking huge frame drops when fire particles are rendered, as well as 20FPS drops in the Plaze and Via Sectors withlots of windows.

  14. #14

    Default

    Just a sidenote: The last time I have worked on the Engine-Fork in our VCS was around x-mas.
    As I stated it before many many times the vast of the graphical stuff is made on the CPU not not on the GPU.
    It doesn't matter if you use DX9, DX11, or whatever API as long you don't use it the right way.

    The fork has a mix of dx9 and dx11 for testing stuff but the primary goal there was to implement the needed basics.... material pipelines, light informations etc ... - Yes, that stuff is non existant on the retail branch and without that all APIs are more or less useless.

    Z
    Zoltan
    Management • Development • Server Administration
    Neocron Support Team
    N E O C R O N - G A M E . C O M

    »What do you hear? - Nothing but the rain. «

    »I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if hundreds of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened.« - server crash

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  15. #15

    Default

    Why would you lower Armor resists further they are already highly ineffectibe compared to skill resists?

    Why were Hybrid/APU damage and the broken aim mechanics of psi modules not adressed?

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