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  1. #16

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    Lol won't even bother responding to that nonsense post that supports the original point at Chazz. Thank you

  2. #17

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    Maybe its time to reduce SI and chance to implant pop out after death? Returning to fight is taking too long. Also person that sync out to safe zone damaged by other player, should have some lingering debuff that allow to be damaged by others without retaliation from copbots.

  3. #18

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    I was in favour of the removal of the safe Zone but as people pointed out it pretty much backfired.

    I changed my opinion on it.

    The punishment for dying and the time it takes to get back in the fight are just to long.

    If you'd cut SI to zero and remove the possibility to lose implants while fighting in certain Areas you'd see more activity.

    Is there a possibility to implement something like this?

    Like am open world neofrag?

    Would be fun to have different areas designated a war zone depending on what the devs feel like. A change of location every week or so.

    Other than that there is no way around zone whoring.

    The time lost from dying -> SI -> reimplant is just to great.

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Odimara Orca View Post
    The punishment for dying and the time it takes to get back in the fight are just to long.

    If you'd cut SI to zero and remove the possibility to lose implants while fighting in certain Areas you'd see more activity.

    Is there a possibility to implement something like this?

    Like am open world neofrag?

    Would be fun to have different areas designated a war zone depending on what the devs feel like. A change of location every week or so.

    Other than that there is no way around zone whoring.

    The time lost from dying -> SI -> reimplant is just to great.
    I don't think the idea of turning the world into neofrag would sit well with many people.

    If after killing someone they could return immediately it'd negate the feeling of accomplishment after killing someone. This downtime also gives the killer the time to hack the belt. Without downtime we might as well do away with belts dropping too as you could be back there before they even have chance to finish hacking.

    It'd be impossible to attack an OP as a dead defender would be back literally within seconds, whereas an attacker would be out for minutes.

    It would completely change this game into something like COD / CS.

    Edit Addition:
    I could see the benefit of reducing the SI somewhat, maybe to 30% or 20%? Not remove it though, it'd be faster to killself then gr around.
    Last edited by JoshCooper; 04-07-17 at 16:14. Reason: Addition
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    - Check out the new NeoFragger killboard here

  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoshCooper View Post
    I don't think the idea of turning the world into neofrag would sit well with many people.

    If after killing someone they could return immediately it'd negate the feeling of accomplishment after killing someone. This downtime also gives the killer the time to hack the belt. Without downtime we might as well do away with belts dropping too as you could be back there before they even have chance to finish hacking.

    It'd be impossible to attack an OP as a dead defender would be back literally within seconds, whereas an attacker would be out for minutes.

    It would completely change this game into something like COD / CS.

    Edit Addition:
    I could see the benefit of reducing the SI somewhat, maybe to 30% or 20%? Not remove it though, it'd be faster to killself then gr around.
    One Zone not the whole game.

  6. #21

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    Always a fan of Will's posts. Liked what I saw in there.

    Definitely not advocating for altering SI/Imps at all. There needs to be a penalty for dying. Removing it would make living or dying in a fight pointless.

    Honestly PP3 has a more enjoyable layout for PvP in my opinion. I've almost never seen people PvP there. The only consistent PvP I've seen in the past 2-3 months has been in P3 dancing around Copbots.
    The Melee Pusher

    Patiently waiting when I can use a Greatsaber in the wastes of Neocron

  7. #22
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    I dont want to throw your topic off course here, I just want to add my 2ps worth.

    I dont think the issue you guys feel is a problem is the safezones but at heart it is the lack of pvp.

    I think we can all agree that wherever there is a safezone you will see people fight along the edge of it. The reason for this is highly likely (in my opinion) due to the death penalties. I have campaigned against the stiff penalties for death in this game for sometime. I am an advocate of making the game as casual friendly as absolutely possible because in my mind it is the only way to encourage a higher population and stimulate growth.

    However I think this is the issue massively, a proposed tweaking of the death rules may stimulate the growth you guys require but at the same time it could easily be a symptom of the lower populations you are experiencing. Pvp is fun, levelling is... a different kind of fun. When you go to pvp you are giving up the time earning progress in your char for a different kind of fun. The limited time you are spending waiting for a fight could have been spent elsewhere on a woc-grind or pking in your bomber or whatever. This is in my mind, a direct result of a lack of population and a lack of casual pvp where you can go and fight and not risk anything.

    I think honestly the "only" answer to this is not as extreme as removing safezones but as Bob said in his has last post or two - find a place where consensual pvp can take place which has limited negatives and only the positives.

    If only there was a place where runners could go for "virtual fights" or be able to "hovercab their skills with other runners......"

    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  8. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    I am an advocate of making the game as casual friendly as absolutely possible because in my mind it is the only way to encourage a higher population and stimulate growth.
    Nice to finally see your Agenda.

  9. #24

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    Still waiting on this....

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobhoskins View Post
    Still waiting on this....
    It took 6 weeks from suggestion to implementation. You've got 5 more to wait

  11. #26
    Registered User Celt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    I think we can all agree that wherever there is a safezone you will see people fight along the edge of it. The reason for this is highly likely (in my opinion) due to the death penalties.
    It's because people dislike dying and feeling like they've lost. Even if you have to zonewhore, as long as you don't die you can tell yourself that you didn't lose and make up various reasons as to why you actually "won".

    I have campaigned against the stiff penalties for death in this game for sometime.
    Meaningless death is a terrible idea and will destroy whatever PVP happens to be left. If killing someone creates no tangible loss for them (whether time or items or money), then you will quickly grow tired of killing them. NC isn't a perfectly balanced e-sport where you have the thrill of beating someone with all parties know that you could only have beaten them because you are the better player.

    I am an advocate of making the game as casual friendly as absolutely possible because in my mind it is the only way to encourage a higher population and stimulate growth.
    Removing death penalties isn't casual friendly, increasing the amount of safe zones and increasing penalties for killing runners who are significantly lower level than you in non-warzones is casual friendly.

    However I think this is the issue massively, a proposed tweaking of the death rules may stimulate the growth you guys require but at the same time it could easily be a symptom of the lower populations you are experiencing.
    Nothing is going to stimulate growth, therefore the aim should be to improve on what needs improving and if that isn't enough to draw players, nothing will.

    Chasing what you hope intangible players want is a fools errand. Figure out where the product needs improving, and work accordingly. Which is mostly what the devs have been doing.


    I think honestly the "only" answer to this is not as extreme as removing safezones but as Bob said in his has last post or two - find a place where consensual pvp can take place which has limited negatives and only the positives.

    If only there was a place where runners could go for "virtual fights" or be able to "hovercab their skills with other runners......"

    Even when I was playing on Uranus with 400+ runners no-one used Neofrag. Giving Neofrag rules to an external zone isn't going to change that.

    People zonewhore because they don't want to die. People PVP because they want to feel positive from 'beating' someone else in the game, not because they want a fair contest. Killing someone who suffers zero consequences from that death is not going to feel like beating anyone.

    Duels were different, because duels were one v one with no exploits, no gaming the rules, and no running away. They were public and people suffered a reputational gain/loss.

    How can people have played the game for so long and still understand so little about it?


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    I'll fear when i find your naked Droner Body and violate it

  12. #27

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    I don't care about dying and losing.

    I do care about getting Group Ganked, losing my PA and needing 10 Minutes to get fight ready again.

    If it's 1o1 i don't even care about losing PA or getting fight ready that much.

    But imo the PPU thing is kind of cancerish.

    If we could at least get rid of SI and popping out Implants for certain zones. Would allow you to go on rolling in succession.

    I had some really fun wars in neofrag.

    The problem is that it mist be organized and neofrag are hard to reach.

    If i could just zone somewhere it would be different.

    How about a warzone with a few hackable boxes in the middle which spawn a Rarepart each every 8 hours or so? Maybe a low chance of a MC5 part? Or a low chance of a special PA / Weapon?

    It would allow the Devs to give the players the incentive to fight for something.

    But it would be camped 24/7 by big clangroups though.
    Last edited by Odimara Orca; 11-07-17 at 10:18.

  13. #28
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Celt

    Always a pleasure to chew the fat with you. I think your take on Uranus populations and activities is vastly different to my memory here but thats life. I never had the pleasure of joining the Ronins because I didnt start playing till Dec 02 and they had more or less self destructed by then. I remember using NF loads for duels, all of the major english speaking clans did. We used it for testing setups, duels and all kinds of things. The reason, I believe, that it wasnt used for actual deathmatch is due to the bugs that were inherent in it that werent replicated in the "real" world.

    As for your points on death penalties. Well there we just have to differ. Its not a case of not knowing anything about the game really, its just a difference of opinion. Nothing in your post states any facts, they are just opinions. I have my opinions too and they can quite happily contradict yours and others. It is the world according to my perception, so of course it is going to be personal to me. Criticising me for making assumptions of what I think people want and then doing the same thing yourself a moment or two later just makes me wonder if you are trying to troll me or you haven't realised you've done it. Either way it only serves to detract from the discussion.

    Zoneline pvp has never been fun for me. Im not a fan, never have been. As technology has moved on so have the cheap tactics because people simply don't want to die. I think the penalties are a direct contributing component of that. For me that's why they zone out at half health. Thats what my experience has led me to believe. However the thrill of killing someone whether they lose something or not actually doesnt feel any different I think in all honesty. The big difference is you are more likely to be able to if they have less incentive to zone out.

    I have seen plenty of other games where death penalties are limited absolutely thrive in the pvp scenario. I could cite plenty. I dont because there is no point. One of the biggest turn offs in gaming, for me, is getting killed and having a massive ball ache to replace what you lost. I came to NC from an arena shooter background so perhaps my years of playing UT and Quake coloured my perception in that direction somewhat.

    Saying nothing is going to stimulate growth and then saying on the next line figure out what needs improving... eh? If nothing is going to stimulate growth then whats the point in anything? Whats the point in even posting at all? At the end of the day NC has a chance to survive if the people running it and the people playing it are passionate about it. What needs to be improved again is completely wide open to interpretation by the individual, we all have different priorities.

    I would like to see NC core mechanics stay as they are for the most part with some minor improvement to the PVP element to encourage people to fight more. I dont see any other way forward for the game. It isnt getting a graphic overhaul any time soon. It isnt getting an engine port, it may get a steam release when it is balanced but with solid core mechanics, a fairly comprehensive tutorial system and some decent shooter mechanics. If this happens and it can take the best parts of modern games and replicate them in its own way I think it has as good a chance as any.

    Odi... I have never had an agenda its carries such a negative stigma I tend not to use it. I prefer to think of it as wanting the best for the game how I see it. If others have an axe to grind because I get on their nerves thats their problem, not mine.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

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