1. #1
    Neocron Support Team Xanthos's Avatar
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    Question Your Input: Wisdom of Ceres

    Hello,
    I would like to hear your feedback related to WoC (-Items).

    Make it "cosmetics" only:
    Example: Instead of a complete new weapon you would get a copy of the Devils Grace sword, just with another color (legacy style), maybe another name etc.

    Or you want that relevant for PvP/E?

    Let me hear your ideas
    Xanthos
    Management • Content Development
    Neocron Support Team
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  2. #2

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    No, no changes.

    WoC is an essential endgame content.

    You should never strip content.

    What you should've done months ago is adjust XP gain according to the lost damage with the AE nerf...

    Don't create problems where none are.

  3. #3
    Neocron Support Team Xanthos's Avatar
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    Default

    It's not all about changes, it's about future items, too.
    Xanthos
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  4. #4

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    What about WOC relevant Items for Droner ?

  5. #5

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    I don't think Xanthos meant replacing the DG, or changing an existing weapon, but when introducing new WoC items.

    It's difficult with a small team to create new weapon models and their associated animations.
    However, a new item can easily be made with a recolour of an existing asset.

    Another idea is creating 'legacy' versions of the existing weapons, but using the old models. So you might have a Pain Easer, but WoC 1 and with the NC1 look.

    Do you want WoC to be purely cosmetic (but function exactly like existing content) or provide different (but hopefully balanced) choices?

    And yes, I'm back .
    Bragi
    Balancing
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  6. #6
    Neocron Support Team Xanthos's Avatar
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    Default

    What Bragi said - thanks

    And welcome back!
    Xanthos
    Management • Content Development
    Neocron Support Team
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  7. #7
    Registered User Drake6k's Avatar
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    Default

    Please make PE WoC take the same length of time to get as the other classes. I'm begging you. Please! PLEASE!!
    Bad Dragon
    Jack Drake
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    My Ppu
    Nipple Goblin

  8. #8

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    [Edited]
    Last edited by Bifrost; 24-06-17 at 13:08. Reason: Flaming/Off topic

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bragi View Post
    I don't think Xanthos meant replacing the DG, or changing an existing weapon, but when introducing new WoC items.

    It's difficult with a small team to create new weapon models and their associated animations.
    However, a new item can easily be made with a recolour of an existing asset.

    Another idea is creating 'legacy' versions of the existing weapons, but using the old models. So you might have a Pain Easer, but WoC 1 and with the NC1 look.

    Do you want WoC to be purely cosmetic (but function exactly like existing content) or provide different (but hopefully balanced) choices?

    And yes, I'm back .
    You contradict yourself.

    No WoC mechanic needs as little of a change as Drugs did when you messed with them.

    Please don't hurt the game any further by implementing changes nobody requested.

    If you want to do some meaningful balance work:

    - Armor Body Zone merging
    - Remove Coma Values from all Gear

    I've given you site long lists of possible additional implants.

    Adjust XP gains and leave WoC alone. Never touch a working system.

    Fix the core issues we have with balance (low tier apu module damage for example to fix hybridocron).

    Don't.

    Touch.

    Anything.

    That is working fine.

    Just don't do it. You will mess it up like you've done so many times before.

  10. #10

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    [Edited]
    Last edited by Bifrost; 24-06-17 at 13:15. Reason: Flaming/Consistency

  11. #11

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    [Edited]

    WoC is working and balanced don't touch it.

    Epic missions are imbalanced. Do something there instead.
    Last edited by Bifrost; 24-06-17 at 13:16. Reason: Flaming

  12. #12

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    So yes WoC should be relevant for PvP / PvE as it currently is.

    All you need to do is adjust XP gains and fix the damn PE WoC already.

  13. #13

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    I would actually prefer that WoC items are NOT cosmetic only. It takes effort to get WoC. (As Jack points out, perhaps too much effort for a PE dex WoC 1) Dont make WoC the 'only good' end game PvE / PvP item, but make it unique at the same time so that there is a reason beyond cosmetics for using the item. In fact, make WoC 2 and 3 items that are not cosmetic only too. Just dont make them twice as good as the next best non-WoC item. But a small bonus? Why not? Could even be a bonus outside of the common realm... such as all the stats plus some extra resist, runspeed, transport... etc Just my two cents and thanks for asking us!

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drake6k View Post
    Please make PE WoC take the same length of time to get as the other classes. I'm begging you. Please! PLEASE!!
    PE WoC does take the same amount of time to get as other classes. It just feels longer because you've capped out earlier than all the other classes.

    It's still 260 Million for WoC 1, 410 Million of WoC 2, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by greensoldier View Post
    I would actually prefer that WoC items are NOT cosmetic only. It takes effort to get WoC. (As Jack points out, perhaps too much effort for a PE dex WoC 1) Dont make WoC the 'only good' end game PvE / PvP item, but make it unique at the same time so that there is a reason beyond cosmetics for using the item. In fact, make WoC 2 and 3 items that are not cosmetic only too. Just dont make them twice as good as the next best non-WoC item. But a small bonus? Why not? Could even be a bonus outside of the common realm... such as all the stats plus some extra resist, runspeed, transport... etc Just my two cents and thanks for asking us!
    I agree here. I like that WoC gives us something to strive for.

    In all honesty, with all the extra stuff hitting the PTS and about to be released, I'd say I think we are good on WoC weapons for the moment.

    Having said that, are there any WoC drones? That could be something to explore.

    Also, there are some weapons that I thought were really neat (like the Rocket Pistol) that were nerfed into being completely obsolete. It'd be nice to see some of those weapons buffed back up. Also the WoC Pistols seem to desperately need some attention, so I think refining those existing weapons (plus all the new stuff you're working on) will be a top priority first before adding even more WoC content should be looked at.
    The Melee Pusher

    Patiently waiting when I can use a Greatsaber in the wastes of Neocron

  15. #15

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    I think that the 'unique' vs 'better' thing is being affected by some overlap.

    Let's say there's a gap in a given weapon TL range. We can add a WoC weapon within that gap that is balanced accordingly; this doesn't make this weapon 'better' (so long as the implant options associated with it aren't any better than with any other choice), but adds variety. Those without WoC then don't feel the need to reach it to compete.

    On the other hand, if you have (for example) a WoC implant that's identical to the DIP, but has a +10 (or whatever value) bonus to something, even if it's 'incidental' (such as VHC, HCK, etc.) then this is still 'better', and you end up shifting the line ever upwards.
    We have to draw the line at overall performance at some point.

    We could of course have a 'soft' line.
    Though horribly confusing to many players, the previous implant rework aimed to make the difference between Tier 3 implants and the Rares and MC5s much less (very similar to what I just mentioned and greensoldier's suggestions). The MC5s were intended as the end-game items, but use of the the lower tiers for more casual and/or less hard-core players would be less detrimental.

    But at the end of the day, the MC5s were always the end-game items.
    The question that needs to be addressed is: Where is our chosen end-game performance line?
    Is it MC5s? In which case WoC is about prestige and non-essential options; Or is it WoC, which while possibly marginal in it's benefits, is still the standard for end-game.
    Bragi
    Balancing
    Neocron Support Team
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