Thread: PVP fixes

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  1. #16

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    I missread your post, I thought you said it was an inconvenience to use.. just waking up, that threw me off lol.

  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arzon View Post
    chris, stealth is used a lot in PvP, since spies can't take the hits like PEs, PPUs, and Tanks can. It is part of their playstyle.. which is what I was trying to explain, and explain there are ways to counter it..
    As long as the counter attacks worked, there would not be an issue.

    I can hit the stealth with a whole clip from a Winding Argument and do no more than 5% - 10% of his HP as the weapon (which is a RARE) hits for 3 or 4 damage a hit + DOT

    Log into the game, and actually play it properly.. You sound like you haven't logged in game for the past few months.

  3. #18

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    it has already been mentioned in this post, and in another that AoE needs to be fixed, read more than 1 message next time. Also that was just 1 example of what to do, and was more so for the marking of the spy.

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arzon View Post
    it has already been mentioned in this post, and in another that AoE needs to be fixed, read more than 1 message next time. Also that was just 1 example of what to do, and was more so for the marking of the spy.
    Its been mentioned for a long time, well before these posts were made on the forum.... you probably wouldn't of been aware of that tho, as you are a forum warrior.

  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arzon View Post
    chris, stealth is used a lot in PvP, since spies can't take the hits like PEs, PPUs, and Tanks can. It is part of their playstyle.. which is what I was trying to explain, and explain there are ways to counter it..

    The people complaining about it are all from the same clan, probably trying to get it nerfed because they don't know how to play against it, and trying to make it look like the community as a whole wants it changed
    Murph is not in the same clan, im not in the same clan but we all complain about it because its slightly overpowered and not so good countered as you think

    Murph is a Solo PvPler as far as ive seen , ok he mixes himself into big fights ,but he knows the melee sight of things , he cant do anything about a stealther except run behind them until the next sync where the syncing times come into play -> you lose your target

    Im a PPU and can tell you TSS is not working properly and if i kick someone out of stealth with it they just restealth and you lose them at one point

  6. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chazz View Post
    Murph is not in the same clan, im not in the same clan but we all complain about it because its slightly overpowered and not so good countered as you think

    Murph is a Solo PvPler as far as ive seen , ok he mixes himself into big fights ,but he knows the melee sight of things , he cant do anything about a stealther except run behind them until the next sync where the syncing times come into play -> you lose your target

    Im a PPU and can tell you TSS is not working properly and if i kick someone out of stealth with it they just restealth and you lose them at one point

    This guy knows what he's talking about..... take note Arzon

  7. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chazz View Post
    Murph is not in the same clan, im not in the same clan but we all complain about it because its slightly overpowered and not so good countered as you think

    Murph is a Solo PvPler as far as ive seen , ok he mixes himself into big fights ,but he knows the melee sight of things , he cant do anything about a stealther except run behind them until the next sync where the syncing times come into play -> you lose your target

    Im a PPU and can tell you TSS is not working properly and if i kick someone out of stealth with it they just restealth and you lose them at one point
    This pretty much sums up the thread.

    The 2 heavily active clans both agree that stealth is broken. I don't happen to be a member of either clan, but that doesn't mean I can't objectively see the broken side of things.

    No one is asking for Stealth to be removed, simply to be reworked. Currently, it's OP due to the fact that there is no counter to it. Every Spy instantly controls the rules of engagement in the fight, simply because they're a Spy. There needs to be some sort of deeper meta to Open PvP other than "Uh oh, he has a stealth tool, I won't be able to kill him unless he's an idiot"

    As far as me personally, Chazz is correct. I deliberately went TS because they are hostile to both CA and BD, meaning if one side is outnumbered I can instantly show up and help the other side out. It also means I can kill both sides with impunity.

    The only reason I fought with BD at some recent Ops was because Jack messaged me saying, "Hey we're doing Op Wars now; BG has about 11-12 and we only have 4-5. Wanna come?" Had Chazz been in the same position, I would have showed up on their side.
    The Melee Pusher

    Patiently waiting when I can use a Greatsaber in the wastes of Neocron

  8. #23

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    hmm also thought that a little cooldown might work on stealthtools since it s sometimes rly annyoing to chase sniper spys in wastelands when they use their 30 sec stealth but 5 sec cooldown is too much. like arzon said stealth is part of the spys playstyle and aoe needs to useful again like it was before they did their balancing on that. aoe was kinda cool before with being very dangerous to spys but you still had to be careful not to kill your team or to kill yourself cause selfinflicted dmg was higher.

    was thinking maybe having a little cooldown before you can put a stealthtool into your hand again depending on the stealthtool you use. maybe like a 0.5 sec cd on stealth I , 1 sec on stealth II and always increase with 0,5 sec per toollvl or something like that.
    Last edited by brand; 14-04-17 at 19:49.

  9. #24
    freedom for neocron! Torg's Avatar
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    Yes, theres is a thing like stealth in NC, and you can't easily kill a stealthed runner. Since a stealthed char can't kill anyone either, why can't we all be friends and get over this? Like in "play both a tank and a spy and enjoy different play styles"?

  10. #25
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Only you would be blind enough to post about being friends in a PVP thread Torg. That is a whole new level of special right there. The irony is brilliant.

    I dont play this game any more I admit but I know the history behind stealth tools and their use and abuse. Havent logged in in some time so this "AOE being useless" aspect is news to me.

    I thought that with the balancing there might be some new items to counter this sort of thing? To me it seems pretty obvious that the TSS needs to be removed from the rare pool and recreated as a storebought weapon. It should then have its PSI requirement lowered to 30 and it should be able to be used by anyone with the right level of skill. It would give PEs another skill to complement their "utility" builds and remove one more headache for the PPU.

    It should also cancel out ANY stealth effect on the caster too. This would do 2 things for balance A) remove the stealth of the opponent as intended but also B) remove it from the caster so that he cant abuse the right to wield it either by stealthing himself whilst his opponent cannot.

    It would work like a rock paper scissors type scenario I would imagine. The only drawback I could see would be your average hybrid possibly just wrecking spies before they had the chance to fight back. But that said I dont actually know if hybrids are viable in the current end game.

    Id have to leave that sort of argument to you guys.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  11. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    Only you would be blind enough to post about being friends in a PVP thread Torg. That is a whole new level of special right there. The irony is brilliant.

    I dont play this game any more I admit but I know the history behind stealth tools and their use and abuse. Havent logged in in some time so this "AOE being useless" aspect is news to me.

    I thought that with the balancing there might be some new items to counter this sort of thing? To me it seems pretty obvious that the TSS needs to be removed from the rare pool and recreated as a storebought weapon. It should then have its PSI requirement lowered to 30 and it should be able to be used by anyone with the right level of skill. It would give PEs another skill to complement their "utility" builds and remove one more headache for the PPU.

    It should also cancel out ANY stealth effect on the caster too. This would do 2 things for balance A) remove the stealth of the opponent as intended but also B) remove it from the caster so that he cant abuse the right to wield it either by stealthing himself whilst his opponent cannot.

    It would work like a rock paper scissors type scenario I would imagine. The only drawback I could see would be your average hybrid possibly just wrecking spies before they had the chance to fight back. But that said I dont actually know if hybrids are viable in the current end game.

    Id have to leave that sort of argument to you guys.
    I kind of like where you're headed.

    As far as hybrids go, they're currently the strongest class in game. Very few people play them because they're honestly not that fun; they can take more damage than a Tank, (self) heal on par with a PPU, and their sustained damage output via the poison spell is substantial. I'd say the only thing they lack is tremendous burst damage (like say, Devo or Ion pistols).

    If you went that route with TSS, I'd say you have to put the PSI requirement to zero. The core issue isn't in group PvP; in groups, you can focus any class down and kill them quick enough with coordination. Sure the stealth abuse buys them time sometimes, but realistically if a spy gets focused at an OP fight they're dead in about 5 seconds.

    The issue is that OP fighting isn't the #1 source of PvP these days. The majority of PvP is small scale 1 vs 1 vs 1, 1 vs 2, 2 vs 3, etc. In these cases, the stealth abuse is glaring, because in small scale almost no one will be rolling as a PPU (I think Chazz is the literally the only guy who mains a PPU, correct me if I'm wrong). Most people aren't looking for something that will render a Spy useless in small scale, they just want SOMETHING that they can use to counter his stealth tool.

    Like, for example, myself as a Melee Tank has zero ability to counter a stealth tool. Not a consumable item. Not a spell. Not an AoE weapon. Like John Wick will show up to fight me, and unless he goes full derp, I can't kill him. I can wreck him all the way to 5% and still be 95%, but I'll never actually be able to kill him so long as he abuses stealth.

    I only use Melee Tank because that's a personal example for me that I know well, but I know there are plenty of other classes/setups that also have zero way to counter stealth. There shouldn't be any class/setup that's put in a situation where they have zero chance to win. It's unhealthy for any game's health.
    The Melee Pusher

    Patiently waiting when I can use a Greatsaber in the wastes of Neocron

  12. #27

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    Well if you take my TSS away and give it to everyone PPU loses another point for being existant atm.
    PPUs lack the strong shields they once had and the Heal isnt as strong at it used to be.
    I know a PPU can be nearly unkillable even now but a hybrid can be just as bad if you lom it right.

    There needs to be a serious though but into Balancing from a PvP point of View.

    Apus - Clearly need love they dont do the High Burst Damage anymore that gave them their right as a Glass Cannon , just the Class remains

    PPUs
    - Only use now is being a sligthly better buffer and Shields then Hybrids or selfbuffs and TSS most rare spells are Shit atm

    Spys - Apart from annoying People with Stealth they do less DMG then they used to but still useful for Small Fights , Opfights it gets tricky sometimes to keep them alive

    Tanks
    HC-Tanks - are good as they are now
    Melee-Tanks - are dmg wise ok but they need somekind of AoE against stealthers or some weapon that gives a Anti stealth Debuff

    PE - Most Useful and Allround Class , with some weapon Setups they are extrem Hard to Beat and do good Dmg

    Hybrids (Monk) - Currently Hardest to beat Class and makes Pure Monks nearly obsolet because they do good DMG close to Apu and have a very High Survivalability + Good Team Buffs


    -> Someone should take a look at the Rare Monk spells and make them better again , we dont talk EXTREM better here but useful again

    -> Give Melee Tanks a little AoE Weapon or add an AoE effect to some weapon thats currently Shit , hell maybe change the Grenades to Melee Weapons and make them better ( Melee Grenades , you need to throw them XD)

    I try to take every Class into Account so dont go on with Chazz you play PPU so you want them Buffed and Unbeatable , no i dont want that , there are Modules and even Tools you can use to deshield a PPU but nobody needs to use them and then Focus a PPU anymore because Tanks Devos do enough DMG through the Shields to kill them.
    Most dont even understand why someone should play a Class that only can support others and cant hurt a Fly

    ->Maybe even add the Freeze again , dont talk about that slow now but a freeze like it was NC2.1 again
    Last edited by Chazz; 25-04-17 at 22:50.

  13. #28

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    How about adding willpower reguirment for stealth activators, like 75 willpower for stealth 1 etc...So only droners could use them and leave the jones stealth tool for pvp.

  14. #29
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frell View Post
    How about adding willpower reguirment for stealth activators, like 75 willpower for stealth 1 etc...So only droners could use them and leave the jones stealth tool for pvp.
    I like this idea a lot. Chazz I think youre going way off topic with your suggestions and are contradicting things a little with your opening line. Removing TSS from the ppu solely is hardly a bad idea. If anything it allows more people to wield it. There is no reason why ONLY a ppu should have it. If anyone with the required PSI had it (perhaps put a negative APU on it to remove it from the hands of hybrids) then it means that PPU AND OTHER classes can have it also. It means it removes the requirement from one character and diversifies it across the rest of the pvp spectrum.

    Id go so far as to say give it to some spies as well tbh. Stealth ruins pvp. If you havent got the balls to die, you shouldnt have the balls to fight.

    Too many "zoneline warriors" in this games history have slowly drained the game into the low population it currently has. The quality of pvp's attraction is the satisfaction when someone dies. Stealth just leaves one person frustrated and the other a coward. If that is the experience people want then please leave it in the game. However if you go back to the glory days we fought without it.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

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