1. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drake6k View Post
    SL and symp loss for killing friendly is already very high.

    Also, what if an ally faction attacks you? Self defense can mean losing a lot of SL/symp currently and it would be even worse with what you just suggested.
    Maybe I'll take a lesson from REVKaH and post over and over in the span of a few minutes.

    To my point Drake6k, what happened before? All the 'hardcore' badasses' (nonCarebares) went around killing every nonLE and ended up with way negative SL and FS and quit. Then everyone complained it was too hard to regain SL (wait, isn't that carebearish... it's a harsh world remember - deal with the consequences right?) so they couldn't or wouldn't come back. What happened? SL regain and missions were changed to help these 'hardcore' 'badasses'. Now the can come back and do a few missions and AFK in their apt to regain SL. 'Hardcore' 'badasses' are so funny.

    All the LE people are asking for is a little compromise. Who knows how complicated it is to allow joining clans... or just LE clans... whatever. Is there any intellectual argument against? That's a serious question.

    I'm sure there are other things that would be nice but just an open, non combative, intelligent dialogue would be a great start.

  2. #47
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Nobody has answered my question yet though, you have a million different programs (voip/skype/discord) to keep a clan/community together outside the game but for some reason the thread starter thinks LE players need to be in a clan. Why is that? What benefit is there that clans give that the LE guy needs it?

    The rest of you guys have launched into a huge discussion surrounding the pvp angle and I agree with points on both sides but the problem you have is this - the LE abusers down the years have ruined many people's views on the LE chip. Using it in ways it was never intended (dungeon blocking, corpse camping in a vehicle, MC5 blocking etc etc) gives people a sour taste when you see those two initials.

    LE players already get complete invulnerability to go about the game, this game needs people fighting just as it needs people tradeskilling. It needs combat at its core to be Neocron. If you guys turn it into a big mIRC cyberpunk chatroom with 5 slot "weapons" that nobody uses then it will stagnate and die. The fact that it is OWPVP (which is a niche market) and the fact that it is NOW easy to cap a char and use ANY gun in the game to pvp with has I think perhaps escaped some of you.

    The balancing team did not put 3+ years of their lives into this game to balance the PVP just so that you bunch of carebears could stand around plaza 1 telling each other how wonderful you are and how that Twilight Guardian inquisition suit really matches your eye liner. They balanced the guns so you could pull out a TS assault rifle and blow that fuckers head off while you take his outpost, destroy his clan's credibility and sex his fucking corpse.

    Jesus christ guys, stop being so fucking carebear and pick up a weapon and fight back if you get pked . When i started playing if we got pked we levelled up like a bastard to fight that guy back. We used to write names on a notepad for fucks sake so we had a hitlist to get em back one day.

    Reputations were made and lost on the streets of Pepper Park, now it seems like reputations are washed away from a flood of tears.

    This game has pvp at its heart. If you dont like that and its not your thing then fair play, you have a working system that does what you need it to do and comes with consequences, it is up to you whether or not you choose to accept those consequences but please dont turn the game into a chat room with 100 LE players stroking each others egos. You will ruin NC with that.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  3. #48

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    I dont like LE too. But i like the idea to take out this after dead penalty "SI+drop out imps" for low lvl noobs, instead LE.

    No penalty to rank */30 after dead. And all are happy

  4. #49

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    @William

    My question was why it issnt possible?
    Everybody play NC like they want, true?

    Play NC like a Shooter, ignore Faction standings? No problem

    Play NC with mates together in a clan, do PVE together. but he/she dont like be ganked and dont like/cannot teamspeak, this is a problem?
    Change all the time chat channel, write a message double? Most time i cannot use teamspeak too when it get late...

  5. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drake6k View Post
    We just leveled during peak hours 4-5 of us without LEs at OZ7. I announced our location on here, on help 3x, and on Discord. No one showed up to kill us! We're around rank /30 now and still haven't died a single time. What a joke.

    LEs aren't even slightly necessary. Take them out and play the real game. We're trying to make a point here.

    Come kill us? Please!?? Where are the gankers!?
    Edit: taking a break now for dinner, killed myself with a barrel
    The current community is a little soft if I knew how to get to oz7 I'd come along to grief some noobs. Got bored of looking for it

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by hudsonbeck View Post
    Jodo don't get discouraged, there are many in agreement. It's just a shame the 'hardcore' 'bad asses' are and have always been the loudest voice. There is always room for compromise. People play NC for many reasons.
    Couple of replies later and we're getting called carebears again. No compromise, no respect.
    Why do people have a problem with an LE clan? It wouldn't even affect other players. All sorts of creative arguments to make life difficult and less enjoyable for LE players from people who flat out hate the LE and don't want to use it. We want to use it and we'd love to have a clan also. Why? A greater sense of belonging, an act of unity and a statement of intent. Also, it'd make the game more fun for us.

    Don't mention the war. I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it all right. - Basil Fawlty

  7. #52

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    I think the XP punishment can be removed.

    But i suggest a 50% malus on earned credits, there should be a trade off somewhere.

  8. #53
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    If you guys can all find a way to stop the le being abused I'm war zones - like disabling it - and stop the other ways it can be abused then I'd say OK have le'd clans.

    My reason for posting this is not to flame those who wear the le but to discourage that behaviour.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    If you guys can all find a way to stop the le being abused I'm war zones - like disabling it - and stop the other ways it can be abused then I'd say OK have le'd clans.

    My reason for posting this is not to flame those who wear the le but to discourage that behaviour.
    This is the problem, LE players will abuse their advantage, I don't blame them... but us players who enjoy to play the game as it was intended suffer in the long run.

    Another option to reduce the chance of being ganked by allies is to make having high Faction Symp and Soul Light a big advantage.
    High Soul Light players could enjoy free GenReps within Neocron and the Outzones, while high faction sympathy could offer heavy discounts within faction HQ shops and even free GR's to faction controlled outposts.

    There are all sorts of benefits that could be added to game that would encourage allied players to stick together.

    Yes there will always be a allied player who ganks or attacks you, but that's something you learn to accept.

  10. #55
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    This does all not work, as you can have mulitple chars and accounts to support the "evil" chars.

    Your char name is known? All too bad SL?

    No problem get the equipment and level a new one.

    The punishmet system means nothing.
    NC3 kommt!

  11. #56
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    Are victims of ganking not making a mountain out of a mole hill here?

    I mean how often do you honestly get ganked while levelling a low level character? And if out hunting warbies or fire mobs, if you choose your zones well then its unlikely you will see another runner for hours on end.

    There will always be gankers at MB as there will always be new players leveing there, they go there because people tell them to, the same with El Faraid, but there are plenty of other area's with good spawns that gankers are unlikely to venture to, they go to MB because it is easy to do so.

    Yes there other places that are less accessible than MB, but one should consider the amount of times he/she is ganked vs a slower spawn rate/lack of city com terminal and the community should give new players places to go other than MB, let them know MB is dangerous, but these other places are not as good for XP but are considered safer.

    Perhaps the dev team can place citycom terminals throughout the outzone sectors and the wastes where there are launcher or equivalent mutant spawns.

    Certainly increasing the spawn rates in these "other" areas where required would also encourage players to venture there.

  12. #57

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    I think there are a couple discussions going on here Dis. One side, me included keep in the le in because when I'm low level I don't want to be ganked by a guy twice my level while I'm leveling and engaged with a mob. I don't have the time to spend getting pokes and traveling back to leveling areas. My play time is limited more than it was 15 years ago. I originally questioned the malice to xp saying it wasn't just. I changed my mind because there were good points and I see the reasoning now. I'm sure there are others with this opinion but I'm only speaking for myself.

    There are others that want to be able to have the clan aspect with having an LE in... I have yet to see an intelligent reason why people oppose this ability.

    I'm sure the technical/code aspect would be huge but that's not what we're are discussing.

  13. #58
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    I suppose the mind-set for LE removal was to get players more involved in PVP, if you are in a clan and you are levelling, then its likely you will fight an opposing clan or faction member to break up the monotony of levelling. That's how it always was in NC1 for me, but I enjoy that sort of thing.

    Things have changed dramatically since early NC1, there are not the same volumes of players competing with each other and higher level players who are bored will pick on non LE's, I know that's always been the case, but there were larger clans policing area's for their own clan mates and they tended to leave lower level non LE's alone, even of enemy factions. Or the clans tended to know other spots that were seldom visited by ganking squads.

    As I mentioned in a previous post, I have no issue with an LE clan, or for LE players to join non LE clans... however there should be restrictions on access to end game hunting spots, I.E the ability to be attacked and killed. I think those restrictions are just and would keep things balanced and fair for all players.

    NST need to make the game accessible to everyone, I do feel that the PVP crowd should ease their stance some-what, LE's deserve to be in a clan if they choose, XP and money malice are in place so removing the chip has a positive effect as well as giving an extra brain slot.

    But, LE players need to understand that if they choose to enter an end game levelling area/warzone they should be just as vulnerable to attack as everyone else, that way it keeps zones free from LE clans who would abuse their status and the PVP players don't feel backed into a corner.

    For me personally, I like the game how it is... but if change is what is needed to keep the game populated then so be it.

  14. #59
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    You cant put people into categories, sides or pigeon holes here at all. You are talking about a game mechanic which is working as intended but is subject to some horrific abuse at times. It is a divisive issue, make no mistake about that, but trying to coral people into a specific group is not the way to foster good discussion.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  15. #60

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    To be honest, I have never been a huge fan of how the LE chip is implemented and works. But I still keep it on most of my characters.

    Why?

    My main reason is that I'm more into the PvE and exploration aspects of the game and less into the faction wars and hardcore PvP.

    Although it probably would be fun learning to PvP now and then for a change, I enjoy being able to hunt and explore in peace and quiet without having to look out for, or even being driven away by some hardcore PvP asshat who has no self control towards players who are not experienced and/or high level enough to hold their own ground. I'm not calling everyone asshats, but it only takes ONE to ruin the game for a non-PvP'er, and not even allies or neutrals will be spared at times because the consequence is really a joke. At the same time consequences for the victim are almost ridiculously harsh - credit loss to GR back to life, huge SI time sink, item lost in belt drop, implants popped, wearing on them and requiring pokes.

    What I would wish for is easing of the death penalties when killed by allied or neutral runner. No credit loss for GR back to life, no belt drop, no implants popped if killed by allied or neutral. These things should only happen when killed by hostile runner. Perhaps even fine runners killing allies or neutrals in credits?

    In addition, I would like to have a faction not hostile to any of the others, perhaps Diamond Real Estate. I think that without being unfaithful to the Neocron lore, DRE could be profit seeking real estate brokers who does not care who they deal with, as long as they make profits. Or, perhaps even better, the possibility to actually be factionless and neutral to everyone.

    As for the LE chip, starter chars could still have one. But the City Administration does not want their LE chipped runners to become too intelligent nor skilled fighters. It could have no malus/penalty until */30 or whatever appropriate rank, but kick in a 100% xp penalty after that. And it would be cool if the Jones questline eventually lead to the runner finding out about the LE chip and given a "Matrix-style" choice to remove it or leave it in, facing the malus and consequences.

    In my opinion, all of this could be a cool compromise and would turn the LE chip into a starter help and part of the storyline instead of half the population still keeping it at high levels.

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