1. #1
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    Exclamation [R#201] Is Constructed Items suppose to only do 10-15% more Damage then Store Items?

    I'm too new to know what construction was like before. Almost everyone who I talked to since 2002 says you must always construct your weapons. Using store bought ones even to level is a joke. And that was assuming you lost half your damage. Well it looks like you actually don't lose half but maybe 10-15% in total not really counting mods but maybe also?

    These are 2 Gatling Guns both the same TL etc. Both the same Speed as well. The difference is once is 99% and the other is 46% and less in stats.


    Bad Gatling Gun 19 DMG:


    Good Gatling Gun 21 DMG:


    This means for Double the Stats it's only a 10% boost? Is this actually really how it is? Or is this a bug?



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  2. #2

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    You forget about Frequency, Aimspeed (Handling) and Mods. Those also provide additional DPS.

    Also on Highet TL weapons the difference is more substantial

  3. #3
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    Yeah I just had always assumed it was a even math to it I guess it never was. Sorry about that. I just always was just under the impression using a crappy store bought weapon while leveling was just to the point it was beyond stupid lol.

    I even made a researcher / crafter to kind of fight back for this lol.
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  4. #4

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    You're right, that damage calculation is looking very flawed. Range difference is like it used to be, but damage calculation is almost not affected by the damage stat. Very noob/levelling friendly, but very flawed in terms of the Neocron spirit. I really hope this is not intended.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noldus View Post
    You're right, that damage calculation is looking very flawed. Range difference is like it used to be, but damage calculation is almost not affected by the damage stat. Very noob/levelling friendly, but very flawed in terms of the Neocron spirit. I really hope this is not intended.
    What I remember from one of Zoltans Dev Posts:

    Every Weapon has an associated Base Damage Value.

    Depending on TL you get a percentage of that base damage value (the first % value)

    Depending on your Subskills you get the percentage of the modifier (the second % value)

    The break even point is around 80 TL if I remember correctly. So from TL80 you get all the base Damage (!) -> you now benefit fully from better Stats, like it used to be-

    The weapon damage (good, better, outstanding) is added to the Second modifier. So the jump in damage is rather low on low TL weapons (Because you get only a low Base value to modify) but gets higher once you reach a certain threshold.

    But do not dispair: Values should easily be ajustable now. At least I dearly hope so else we got a problem.
    Last edited by Odimara Orca; 19-11-16 at 01:17.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Odimara Orca View Post
    The weapon damage (good, better, outstanding) is added to the Second modifier. So the jump in damage is rather low on low TL weapons (Because you get only a low Base value to modify) but gets higher once you reach a certain threshold.
    Well that is my point. It looks like the damage stat is literally that - ADDED to the second modifier, instead of MULTIPLIED with it.

    The result is that bad store bought weapons are now fully viable as levelling weapons if you're willing to take the range hit. Low to mid level tradeskillers will be even less useful than they used to be.

    I don't know if anyone care about this issue anymore these days, but to me Neocron is a game where fighters are completely dependent on tradeskillers (players!) supplying them with good weapons/equipment.

    Making store bought weapons viable is not true to the original Neocron spirit and idea, so I think it's flawed.
    Last edited by Noldus; 19-11-16 at 13:46. Reason: Sorry for the wall of text!

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noldus View Post
    Well that is my point. It looks like the damage stat is just that - ADDED to the second modifier, instead of MULTIPLIED with it.

    The result is that bad store bought weapons are now fully viable as levelling weapons if you're willing to take the range hit. Low to mid level tradeskillers will be even less useful than they used to be. I don't know if anyone care about this issue anymore these days, but to me Neocron is a game where fighters are completely dependent on tradeskillers supplying them with good weapons/equipment. Making store bought weapons viable is not true to the original Neocron spirit and idea, so I think it's flawed.
    I think it is Multiplied as part of the Second formula but it has a low overall impact on the Second value.

    From this we can deduce that Subskill is atm more Important than weapon Quality.

    This would also Impact the worth of rares.

    Edit: No it shouldn't I'll test it with TL80 and TL110 weaponry later, after all the bigger the Base Damage Value / the TL the bigger the impact of Weapon Quality gets. Coupled with the fact that at the same time Weaponskill get's less important this could be well balanced at higher levels.

    But if the lower TL weapon does more damage it would be certain that something is wrong.

    But as we're dealing with a linear function here i don't see how NST could quickly fix it at low levels without messing up the higher levels.

    Edit2: Alright I agree. A weapon Quality difference of 45÷ should increase the damage by at least 35÷.

    They might need to have anothet look at the formula.
    Last edited by Odimara Orca; 19-11-16 at 14:10.

  8. #8

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    The TL75 Tangent Laser Cannon (120% Damage) does 10% more damage per shot than my TL110 Plasma Wave (111% damage)... Something seems wrong here.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Odimara Orca View Post
    Edit2: Alright I agree. A weapon Quality difference of 45÷ should increase the damage by at least 35÷.

    They might need to have anothet look at the formula.
    Exactly my point!

    If they indeed multiply the damage stat somewhere in that second damage modifier, they must be applying the damage stat to only a part of this value. And that is what I think is flawed and right out wrong.

    As far as I understand, the second damage modifier (in the paranthesis) is the calculated skill modifier. But this is also where the damage stat seem to be factored in. But apparently part of this calculation has some kind of fixed base value which the damage stat does not influence.

    Damage stat should, in my opinion, be multiplied with the FULL value of the second damage modifier!

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Odimara Orca View Post
    The TL75 Tangent Laser Cannon (120% Damage) does 10% more damage per shot than my TL110 Plasma Wave (111% damage)... Something seems wrong here.
    That is more or less intended behavior, as far as I understand what the dev team wanted to achieve. But I don't think such extreme cases were intended though. You are supposed to have to keep increasing weapon skill with increasing TL, but I suspect the skill calculation formula (at high TL) still need some tweaking and adjustments...

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noldus View Post
    That is more or less intended behavior, as far as I understand what the dev team wanted to achieve. But I don't think such extreme cases were intended though. You are supposed to have to keep increasing weapon skill with increasing TL, but I suspect the skill calculation formula (at high TL) still need some tweaking and adjustments...
    Sorry 230 H-C should be more than enough

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Odimara Orca View Post
    Sorry 230 H-C should be more than enough
    It's worse than I thought then...

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