1. #16
    Registered User Drake6k's Avatar
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    I was on Vedeena fighting fire mobs in F13 and found the mobs to have too much health. Is this intended? As soon as this patch comes out everyone is going to want to farm techs and with mobs having so much health now people are going to be pissed.

    Edit: My pistol booster 1 still has decimals.
    Last edited by Drake6k; 05-11-16 at 22:56.
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  2. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celt View Post
    What's the inherent problem with being able to lower runspeed by using specific weapons and targeting specific body parts?

    I'm instantly wary of people who use phrases like "real pvp doesn't need it" as the only real justification against bringing back what at one stage was a fairly important mechanic in Neocron.
    Here are my responses, from an earlier thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bmurph101 View Post
    The fact that you have to aim in Neocron already allows more skilled players to beat less skilled ones.

    It only adds tactics if there is a way to instantly heal your legs back to full health status, making it so disabling legs allows for 1-2 easier shots before your opponent (provided they know what they're doing) is moving back to full tilt.

    If there's no way to regen your legs instantly then the only "tactic" for PvP is who disables the legs first. It also hamstrings melee even more than it already is, as getting disabled in its current state means the melee player has instantly lost, whereas a ranged player can at least still out-aim his opponent and prevail.

    Pro-tip: Anything that slows down PvP is almost always a bad thing. Bob is right; in its current state, it should be removed. If they added some ability/item to regen your legs at an abnormal rate, then I'd be all for it. But yeah, its current state is bad. It not being present on Titan makes PvP infinitely more fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by bmurph101 View Post
    I get what you're coming from, and again, I'm not against legs being allowed to be 'disabled' provided there is counter play for it. I'm sure the crippling of legs was a huge deal in NC1 when you had hundreds/thousands of people playing the game and fights were constantly full of people. But let's be real, even the OP fights we have with the current population are at best 'small scale' (10 vs 10 would be a HUGE OP fight by the current pop standards).

    If we break it down to the most simplistic terms we have:

    Player Movement: Rock
    Ability to Cripple Player Movement: Paper
    Ability to regain movement: Scissors

    If you only implement Rock and Paper, then you have a fundamentally broken system, wherein one will always trump the other. It means nothing to have good movement (which in any game, particularly games that require aiming is an invaluable skill) if that movement can be taken away by someone with good aim.

    It also hurts the viability of a majority of players, as the only skill that will be valuable is the skill to aim (which most people don't have razor sharp aim), whereas before, players with superior movement/positioning and average aim could beat players that only had average movement/positioning and superior aim.

    It doesn't need to be something ground-breaking to do it. It can be something as simple as making the Nanite Injector instantly revive all limbs upon use, effectively making it so that your good aim forces your opponent into making a decision:

    1)Swap to nanite injector to regain movement, thus losing out on potential DPS instantly but regaining movement and prolonging the fight
    2)Choose to forgo movement (usually would happen if the fight was very close and both fighters were almost dead) and choose instead to opt for potential DPS
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  3. #18
    Registered User Celt's Avatar
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    The fact that you have to aim in Neocron already allows more skilled players to beat less skilled ones.
    You assume that skill only relates to ability to aim. Aiming skill relates to ability to aim, Neocron has (had) many systems that made pure ability to aim not the only skill necessary in order to PVP effectively.


    It only adds tactics if there is a way to instantly heal your legs back to full health status, making it so disabling legs allows for 1-2 easier shots before your opponent (provided they know what they're doing) is moving back to full tilt.


    If there's no way to regen your legs instantly then the only "tactic" for PvP is who disables the legs first. It also hamstrings melee even more than it already is, as getting disabled in its current state means the melee player has instantly lost, whereas a ranged player can at least still out-aim his opponent and prevail.
    I played when freezing/crippling worked correctly. You are 100% wrong in your assumption that working movement impairment reduces PVP to 'who cripples who first wins'. The rest is your lack of imagination in foreseeing how adding another (correctly balanced) tactic actually makes PVP more complex, dynamic and unstable.


    Pro-tip: Anything that slows down PvP is almost always a bad thing.
    Pro-tip: People who speak in absolutes tend to not be able to offer pro-tips


    I get what you're coming from, and again, I'm not against legs being allowed to be 'disabled' provided there is counter play for it. I'm sure the crippling of legs was a huge deal in NC1 when you had hundreds/thousands of people playing the game and fights were constantly full of people. But let's be real, even the OP fights we have with the current population are at best 'small scale' (10 vs 10 would be a HUGE OP fight by the current pop standards).
    Again you show your lack of imagination. Freezing was used less the bigger the fight was, it was more useful in small engagements. I remember using freezing/crippling most on enemy monks performing hit and run attacks before running to heal/buff and re-engage. As a HC tank, while I could out-DPS my enemies, I was much slower while doing so.

    If we break it down to the most simplistic terms we have:


    Player Movement: Rock
    Ability to Cripple Player Movement: Paper
    Ability to regain movement: Scissors
    Don't use flawed analogies, they only ruin whatever point you're trying to make. In this case, how does rock beat scissors? :roll:

    If you only implement Rock and Paper, then you have a fundamentally broken system, wherein one will always trump the other. It means nothing to have good movement (which in any game, particularly games that require aiming is an invaluable skill) if that movement can be taken away by someone with good aim.
    More lack of imagination. Why aren't you including movement speed, aim speed and particularly how movement speed+aim speed interact? Oh, because it would ruin your point!

    It also hurts the viability of a majority of players, as the only skill that will be valuable is the skill to aim (which most people don't have razor sharp aim), whereas before, players with superior movement/positioning and average aim could beat players that only had average movement/positioning and superior aim.
    More lack of imagination. Neocron is not, never was and never can be a pure aiming skill based shooter. Indeed, I'm aware of very few people who ever did want it to be.


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  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Celt View Post
    You assume that skill only relates to ability to aim. Aiming skill relates to ability to aim, Neocron has (had) many systems that made pure ability to aim not the only skill necessary in order to PVP effectively.

    No, I don't make that assumption at all. You lack the IQ possible to understand what I"m saying. Player movement, aiming, stat management, and spatial awareness all fall under what would be categorized as "skill". The difference is, with leg crippling being re-introduced, and with a lack of counter play, aiming will inherently be far more valuable than any other skill, as out-aiming your opponent initially and crippling his legs will render him unable to move(thus impairing movement) limit his ability to use his environment to defeat you (spatial awareness) and completely negate any stat management because he'll be a sitting duck.

    With crippling legs, it no longer is an Aim/movement/stat management/spatial awareness game, it becomes simply Aim> every other skill



    I played when freezing/crippling worked correctly. You are 100% wrong in your assumption that working movement impairment reduces PVP to 'who cripples who first wins'. The rest is your lack of imagination in foreseeing how adding another (correctly balanced) tactic actually makes PVP more complex, dynamic and unstable.

    Please, explain another correctly balanced tactic that allows for more complex, dynamic, and "unstable" (lmfao) PvP. Crippling and freezing are garbage tactics in any game where part of the "skill" set (see above) relies on players actively having to apply damage and actively having to avoid it. Freezing/crippling your opponent, with ZERO counter to it, instantly renders almost all "skills" ineffective, because you cannot use said skills to your advantage any more.

    Pro-tip: People who speak in absolutes tend to not be able to offer pro-tips

    Pro-tip: Don't trash talk absolutes, then make an absolute of your own. Gso.


    Again you show your lack of imagination. Freezing was used less the bigger the fight was, it was more useful in small engagements. I remember using freezing/crippling most on enemy monks performing hit and run attacks before running to heal/buff and re-engage. As a HC tank, while I could out-DPS my enemies, I was much slower while doing so.

    You simply just prove my point here. You cripple the legs of the enemy monk. There is nothing the monk can do to counter said "crippling" effect. You walk away briefly, then come back and smoke him because he has no retaliation techniques that will save him. He can't move quick enough to stat back up, hide away from you, or even out damage you at this point, because he's an almost stationary target and you're moving full tilt.

    Thanks for making my job easy and dunking yourself in the same post. Never seen that one before.


    Don't use flawed analogies, they only ruin whatever point you're trying to make. In this case, how does rock beat scissors? :roll:

    Fight starts

    Player A uses Paper (Crippling legs) to disable Player B's Rock (Movement)

    Player B uses Scissors (Nanite tool) to counter A's Paper (Crippling legs)

    Player A uses Rock (Movement) to counter B's scissors (Nanite tool); I'm not sure if you've played the game, but punishing someone with your movement/positioning when they decide to stat is absolutely a hard counter.

    So, again, dunking yourself. lol.


    More lack of imagination. Why aren't you including movement speed, aim speed and particularly how movement speed+aim speed interact? Oh, because it would ruin your point!

    Again, these are all part of my ACTUAL point. If you possessed the reading comprehension available to process it, you'd understand that the system I'm advocating for balances these required "skills" far more than the one you're fighting for, where pure aim is head and shoulders more valuable than all the others combined.


    More lack of imagination. Neocron is not, never was and never can be a pure aiming skill based shooter. Indeed, I'm aware of very few people who ever did want it to be.

    For someone who claims that I am unimaginative, you clearly possess a vast, inadequate understanding of what makes a balanced, yet skillful game. The system you're vehemently advocating for is closer to a "pure, aiming skilled shooter" than the system I am proposing.
    Responses in red. If you're going to come at me like that, you better present some ACTUAL good points.
    The Melee Pusher

    Patiently waiting when I can use a Greatsaber in the wastes of Neocron

  5. #20

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    Got freezed in pvp? Use a fucking antifreezdrug like we did it 10 years ago...
    damn casuals
    Broken legs shouldnt slow you down too much, but a bit is okay. Shouldnt there be some kind of leg enforcement that reduceses the malus?

  6. #21

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    Any news on Patch 246? What changes?

  7. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dasore View Post
    Got freezed in pvp? Use a fucking antifreezdrug like we did it 10 years ago...
    damn casuals
    Idgaf what you did 10 years ago. It was a shit mechanic then. 10 years and an obscenely low population made it even more shit.

    Take off the rose tinted nostalgia shades.
    The Melee Pusher

    Patiently waiting when I can use a Greatsaber in the wastes of Neocron

  8. #23
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    We didnt have anti freeze drugs until NC2 if I recall, we DID have tanks whipping out freezer cannons before ganking everyone in 2003 and we also had a community wide backlash against it to the point that freezer weaponry of ALL kinds were pretty much uniformly nerfed into the floor.

    Then we had holy parashock and we even had a forum-wide campaign to remove the "blue glue". It was hated by large portions of the community who actively played back then.

    I am in the remove para/freeze/any kind of movement slowing drug and bring back a fairly stable runspeed cap. We had a runspeed cap in nc1 and we knew what it was. It was slow enough that MOST players didnt need to slow people down so freezer guns were only used by cheap ass clans in gank teams - the same as it is today by the sound of it. Freeze weapons are universally used as cheap tactics to get the drop on an opponent in my experience, they werent ever really used in any of the op fights i went to because the people I played with abhorred them. We loathed blue glue to the point that mostly we just wouldnt bother with it. If it was needed it was due to the insane clipping mechanics NC2 brought and the removal of said runspeed cap.

    These are my opinions and my memories, they are not necessarily facts. I remember a time when your resist set up meant that you could survive a gank attempt, not how many fucking anti para drugs you could spam.
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  9. #24
    Huckle Beare' Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    I hate the leg breaking thing. always have. always will. stuns snares and slows arent, in my eyes, a necessary part of neocron. had this conversation a thousand times with a thousand people.

    I vote make neocron great again (with no leg breaking)

    Ps. will. 10 years ago was 2006. we were in the throes of nc2 by then. antifreeze drugs were a thing.
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  10. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Holliday View Post
    I hate the leg breaking thing. always have. always will. stuns snares and slows arent, in my eyes, a necessary part of neocron. had this conversation a thousand times with a thousand people.

    I vote make neocron great again (with no leg breaking)

    Ps. will. 10 years ago was 2006. we were in the throes of nc2 by then. antifreeze drugs were a thing.


    Hear hear!

    See below the results from a past vote around this topic area.

    113 Votes Yes
    50 Votes No
    https://forum.neocron-game.com/showt...-Poll-Vote-Now!

  11. #26

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    Could we get a poll to vote on for the leg breaking and freeze effects that are due to come into play Saturday?
    Not sure if that is something i can make can't see an option for it.
    Last edited by bobhoskins; 09-11-16 at 12:25.

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