1. #1

    Default Question regarding stealing other players items.

    I've seen Pinkk/Visage/Firesprite offer to "repair" noobs items, and instead steal them. Multiple times. Is this against the rules, or just a really shitty thing to do to people on a server that Pinkk claims to hate and want to kill? All I ever see this guy do when he logs in is be toxic to others. Literally the only person in game I've had to put on ignore.

    Can we just say enough is enough? Or am I being a lil bitch and he should be able to continue to screw people over and shit talk the server?

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by kazvall View Post
    I've seen Pinkk/Visage/Firesprite offer to "repair" noobs items, and instead steal them. Multiple times. Is this against the rules, or just a really shitty thing to do to people on a server that Pinkk claims to hate and want to kill? All I ever see this guy do when he logs in is be toxic to others. Literally the only person in game I've had to put on ignore.

    Can we just say enough is enough? Or am I being a lil bitch and he should be able to continue to screw people over and shit talk the server?
    There used to be a time when this game had a real population. You had clans... and people had reputations. You needed contacts and trust. Scamming items is legit but since there is like barely 50 people online since 5 years I think whoever does it now is an idiot.

  3. #3

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    I guess I'm just being a big baby if it is, in fact, legal to scam people. Hard to be online all the time to warn the noobs against it. Oh well I'll continue handing out comparable gear to the stuff that was stolen. /shrug


    Edit: Just seems shitty for toxic players to try and ruin this server and hump the nc1 server that's not even out.

  4. #4

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    Regardless, if you see this, please warn others against this asshole.

  5. #5

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    Scenario: I am a new player, using my tl53 rifle to level with. It breaks and I try to find a rep to fix it. There's only ONE person offering to repair my gun, and it just happens to be the person waiting to scam noobs. Is this a fair scenario? Is the playerbase big enough to afford one person ruining the time of a new player?

  6. #6
    Order of the Black Flame yavimaya's Avatar
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    he is within his right to scam, that should not be changed.
    i agree he is just a scum faced shithead for doing it when pops are low.

    as far as talking shit to get people over to the other server.... should be instant perma ban.

  7. #7
    Registered User saadow's Avatar
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    Respectfully, I disagree that he's within his right to scam, perhaps if we had hundreds of players on we could say like back in 2014 "Caveat Emptor," but the problem is that we have less than 2% of the servers capacity. Scamming players on a game which is in hard development right now to fix the problems its facing is not going to make them want to stay. It's currently unmoderated, but so long as someone can hide behind an LE, there is absolutely no justice of any kind. If we agree that the Law Enforcer is a device which enforces the law, and that failure to perform a service without restitution or return of owned property is theft, how is the Law Enforcer doing its job anyway? I would argue that theft is indeed illegal, as there's a missions in the game which support that. I naturally cannot spoil them but they exist. Consistent application of the lore, while not vital, leaves no reason with sufficient posture to leave scamming unmoderated.

  8. #8

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    Scamming where you trade another item to another player who then runs off with your item, is legitimate. Harsh I know, but Neocron is a tough world. How you go about revenge is upto you.

    I'm sure the players here will give you their own advice on how to avoid being scammed.

    Quote Originally Posted by kazvall View Post
    All I ever see this guy do when he logs in is be toxic to others. Literally the only person in game I've had to put on ignore.
    Picking up on this point, all players are bound by the Neocron Rules of Conduct. If you or anyone believe any player is breaching these rules, please drop us an email to helpdesk@neocron-game.com with any evidence such as chatlogs and screenshots.
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  9. #9
    Registered User saadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bifrost View Post
    Scamming where you trade another item to another player who then runs off with your item, is legitimate. Harsh I know, but Neocron is a tough world. How you go about revenge is upto you.
    Hi Bifrost! Its been a while since we spoke, great to see you, thanks for coming into the thread and weighing in! I know how things have always been, but an open dialogue about that is not unreasonable, is it? Neocron is a tough world, with a tough playerbase that endures. I think we all agree that we want to see the best for this world, and while I agree that on a lore standpoint, scamming is really legit business for a seedy underworld themed game, the avenues for revenge are limited with the application of the Law Enforcer.

    As far as avoiding scams, with such a limited player base, if there's only one person offering a service to repair an item, knowledge that repairs can be done remotely with a remote repair tool is a good start, however I'd like to draw attention to rule 1, and that I feel this rule is broken when a scam has taken place.

    firstrule.png

    It clearly states not to cause discomfort or distress. I would like to argue that I've been in this position where I've lost my ability to function because my primary tool for leveling either hasn't worked (Drones) or where it's broken when I needed it (Hacking/Hacknet) and these were my own doing, however, another player doing this to someone on our limited playerbase is causing distress and discomfort that really doesn't need to be there. It's the first rule up there. How can we say it's okay for a player to scam someone else, when rule #6 states that you can't take part in Pyramid schemes or other forms of fraud? Admittedly, we can agree there's a huge gap between real life fraud and in game fraud, but I'd argue that allowing someone to do this with a Law Enforcer in provides no method of retaliation, there is no resolution or recourse, and that further causes distress and discomfort.

    #7 says you may not violate any laws, local, state, federal, international. There are a slew of laws against cyberbullying, and I'll happily edit my post with a number of them, we can define bullying as a verb where, "use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants." By scamming another player in the virtual environment, the scammer is using their influence and the intimidation factor of needing assistance to get the item from them, which is just what they wanted. Cyberbullying is simply the application of bullying over an electronic medium. By supporting this kind of activity, I would like to argue that the staff are equally culpable for breaking Rule #1, not for the sake of saying, "Ah hah, I got you!" but for the sake of rhetoric.

    We all love Neocron and we want Neocron to be better, don't we? I'd like to ask us to review this policy and say, "What good purpose does this serve? How does this help our playerbase? How does this make Neocron better?"

  10. #10
    Order of the Black Flame yavimaya's Avatar
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    sorry, i dont buy it, PKing someone once could be seen as causing discomfort or distress.....


    I dont know about todays hippy interpretation of the word "bully", but in the past, for a case to be "bullying" there must be more than one case of intimidation or violence.
    again, the way you put it, a single PK of someone could be classes as bullying.

    im not for people scamming others ingame, however as much as i am not for that, i am 100X less for making the game softer, we already lost naked strippers.... this game was once for 18+.... then the carebears came and half ruined it.... then the hackers come and totally ruined it.

    lets have a non carebear cyberpunk atmosphere where there is a level playing field but people can do what they like.
    Last edited by yavimaya; 28-07-16 at 00:35.

  11. #11
    Registered User saadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yavimaya View Post
    sorry, i dont buy it, PKing someone once could be seen as causing discomfort or distress.....


    I dont know about todays hippy interpretation of the word "bully", but in the past, for a case to be "bullying" there must be more than one case of intimidation or violence.
    again, the way you put it, a single PK of someone could be classes as bullying.

    im not for people scamming others ingame, however as much as i am not for that, i am 100X less for making the game softer, we already lost naked strippers.... this game was once for 18+.... then the carebears came and half ruined it.... then the hackers come and totally ruined it.

    lets have a non carebear cyberpunk atmosphere where there is a level playing field but people can do what they like.
    If your only argument is ad hominem against those that would view scamming people causes distress then I really can't argue that, I'm not here to sell you something, and I'm not here to be right. The purpose of having a discussion is to enlighten to another point of view. I don't understand how this answers the question of "what good purpose allowing scamming to persist serves?"

    I'm here because we have a mutual interest in the continued function of Neocron, which happens when there's a playerbase. If you provide no reasonable recourse to an individual to right an injustice that affects their game play experience, then what reason do they have to stay here?

    I fail to see how treating members of the community properly when someone prevents their ability to function in the game and continue playing, giving them a reason to return to the service, makes the game softer. I would consider that engagement valuable and shows the administration team--who is already fighting very hard between updating the server and taking care of the other aspects involved--has solidarity with these players. You said yourself you're not with scamming, so why are you defending it?

    Respectfully, you know, we can have it both ways. We have this law enforcer chip which is fantastic, it gives players the choice to what interaction they're willing to engage in with the game, and it's presence is more than sufficient in my opinion, for the establishment of choice. However, if someone elects to scam another player, I think it makes the game a -little harder- that if they're caught, they get it removed. If they make another character to avoid the penalty of having the LE removed, well, there's only four character slots so they'd have to waste their time dealing with that.

    Further, since I can respect your enjoyment of the difficulty, the onus and burden of proof should be on the victim, if they can furnish proof they were scammed, the level of that proof would need to be sufficient by the terms of the staff, if photo evidence isn't enough, perhaps a twitch recording of trade interactions that can be reviewed would be an excellent use of modern technology.

    I would like to respectfully assert that your argument of multiple cases of intimidation, violence, or action against another has already been well established, at least two years ago, I recall this very same conversation, when we had a considerable number more players on. I'd say these past two years haven't been kind to the server, and looking at when you joined, basically when I started college, you've seen the whole game in what could be argued as the golden age. Personally, if we had a larger playerbase, I'd -agree- that it should be Caveat Emptor. I think right now though, it'd be wise to consider an exception with such a limited number of people around. Retention should be a priority.

  12. #12
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Scam me once shame on you.


    Scam me twice, shame on me.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  13. #13
    Order of the Black Flame yavimaya's Avatar
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    warn people about them
    get others to constantly PK them if you cant.
    dont turn this into WoW.

    im sorry if im wrong, but i imagine you as the guy who would have asked electronic arts to change it so youy stuff doesnt drop when you die in UO..... hey that used to happen here too, untill carebears wanted it changed (server load played a role in that change too) so they dont lose thier stuff.....


    im all for giving scammees more options for revenge, i am not for removing scamming or other things which fit in with the atmosphere.
    i agree retention is the most important thing, but neocron lost a lot of players with most major changes, that included each time things were made to cater for younger players.

    the glory days of neocron where harsh, but that is why they were good, each change that brought us to a "safer" gaming place made it worse - stripper nipples being band aided, backpack no longer dropping, safe slot in quickbelt, etc.
    Last edited by yavimaya; 29-07-16 at 01:44.

  14. #14
    Registered User saadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yavimaya View Post
    warn people about them
    get others to constantly PK them if you cant.
    dont turn this into WoW.
    That's all well and fine as long as they don't have their LE installed, then I suppose it's justice served. If they do, then this gives absolutely no recourse.

    But it should come to notice of the record that there has been no challenge to my assertion that this activity is, in fact, against the rules and it's simply been ignored. Which is a shame. Something should be done to rectify the situation, either by treating it as the infraction it really is or giving the player in question a method of exacting revenge.

    How about a bounty card? A tool allowing the player in question to attack the player named on the item, LE installed or not, with all the benefits and downfalls of PVP regarding that one user until the player holding the card or anyone in a team with the card-holding player kills the player in question, or no longer has the card in their belt? While holding the item, the player or anyone in their team can be killed by the named player, if they die they retain the card and can continue to hunt the scammer at another time?

    To keep with the atmosphere, the card should only be given to the character who was scammed, and only be good for the character the person was scammed by?

  15. #15
    Huckle Beare' Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Visage aka arista barret aka inspector pinkie or pinky i forget how he spelled it. Just lol. Dont trust him with your shit in game. thats all i can say.
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    Something is wrong.
    Where are the people asking for free candy or Double-XP ?

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