1. #1

    Default Balance Project Update, July 2016.

    To clarify a bit further on some of Bragi's points, our next patch to Titan will be the changes to the weapon system. Those changes encompass an entirely rewritten damage and weapon mechanic system. All aspects of how weapons operate in the game will have a completely new implementation. An implementation that we're sure will have many benefits in the years to come.

    This is the implementation you have seen evolve on Vedeena since the last Titan patch.

    Weapons will still be those that you know and use today. You won't suddenly have to relearn the entire game but the underlying mechanics will be more efficient. They will be more reliable and accurately predictable. All weapons types have been united into a manageable system which accurately reflects the changes we make. No longer will a toffee hammer adjustment to a statistic lead to a sledgehammer change in damage in game.

    This is the reason any testing of weapons you can contribute from Vedeena would be very helpful. For example, each runner picks a series of weapons, tests them against our damage sponge Elf NPCs and notes the anomalies. With that data Zoltan can chase down and fix the last pockets of renegade code which cause some of seemingly unpredictable impacts we've seen in Neocron for years.

    Once that's done, the changes we've added to Vedeena will be rolled into the next Titan patch. It's the significance and wide spread nature of the weapon system rewrite, which is holding back some of the other changes currently on Vedeena.
    Last edited by Trivaldi; 15-07-16 at 09:30. Reason: typo!
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  2. #2

    Default

    Hey there,

    I'm loaded up with all the melee weapons on my tank, and all the rifles on my spy. Could you explain how to get WoC on the test server?

    I believe Jack is loaded up with all the H-C and Pistols on his test characters. He just started a new job... but I'll try and help him by being his ammo mule. That means I just need to lom my spy to drones and get those numbers, after rifles are done.

    I believe APU spell tests have already been done? Please let me know about that, and where to grab WoC.

    Thanks.

  3. #3

    Default

    In the Neoconstruct is an altar which warps you to the Ceres temple. Talk to the 'Super Hard Mission Guy' to kill a rat. This gives you a bucket of xp (you may need to repeat this challenging mission a few times).
    In the Neoconstruct is an NPC that gives out free WoC disks (WoC'o'Mat). Talk to the Moneyman for free creds and activate WoC as normal.
    Bragi
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  4. #4

    Default

    I have the melee weapons done, will continue with rifles tomorrow. I'll get everything posted after I make sure there's no errors/typos.

  5. #5

    Default

    Thanks very much kazvall, this really helps us a lot!
    Trivaldi
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  6. #6

    Default

    The Moneyman is found in the Neoconstruct btw.
    There is also a terminal to jump between temple and 'struct.
    If you want to fix the game, start with the most essential part: The Community...
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  7. #7
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Default

    What weapons require testing please? As in specific individual weapons or by class. Is there a shared document anywhere that we can all use (google drive or some such) so as to record data accurately?

    What specifically is required - as in do you want a spreadsheet with my character stats (PC, RC, Wep Lore) and % stats on the weapons) and damage numbers or just damage numbers?

    I can easily write a basic excel sheet to cope with the data but is this the best format? and how can I ensure I am not duplicating someone elses testing just because I like pistols more for example?

    Any feedback would be appreciated. I am keen to help if this is achievable solo.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  8. #8
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trivaldi View Post
    tests them against our damage sponge Elf NPCs .
    where can i find them ?

    found them ...
    Last edited by -AB-; 15-07-16 at 13:12.

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    What weapons require testing please? As in specific individual weapons or by class. Is there a shared document anywhere that we can all use (google drive or some such) so as to record data accurately?

    What specifically is required - as in do you want a spreadsheet with my character stats (PC, RC, Wep Lore) and % stats on the weapons) and damage numbers or just damage numbers?

    I can easily write a basic excel sheet to cope with the data but is this the best format? and how can I ensure I am not duplicating someone elses testing just because I like pistols more for example?

    Any feedback would be appreciated. I am keen to help if this is achievable solo.
    Check the latest patch notes - under the section "Known issues" In summary, don't use PSI, Drones and stick to testing with normal ammo.

    The format, you can choose. We even had a paper scan from Ascension which was perfect!
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  10. #10
    former king of saturn
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    Wouldn't it make sense to build a logging tool that captures this information automatically so it could be both automated and accurate without all of the manual effort?

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Divide View Post
    Wouldn't it make sense to build a logging tool that captures this information automatically so it could be both automated and accurate without all of the manual effort?
    I suspect that will come later when the new code has settled down into a good working state as the changes are quite extensive.

    Plus logging tools don't always capture bugs that players find or how the game feels to play with the changes. Also you get a +1 on your post count for posting on the forums.
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  12. #12
    English Lead Moderator, Community Consultant Nidhogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bifrost View Post
    Also you get a +1 on your post count for posting on the forums.
    Always a bonus. (+1)
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  13. #13
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Default

    so a cut and paste onto the forum will suffice then? I will go and test some numbers and write them in here and thats enough for you?
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  14. #14

    Default

    Warning: With the rifle/melee weapons I tested I was having trouble getting headshots on the elf bitches. Melee I couldn't seem to, probably because I had to stand in close proximity. In some cases with the rifles I was able to score a headshot. If I was able to, I wrote it down. I'm going to assume the models aren't responding correctly with the hitboxes, and not that the weapons are bugged. Same thing with the feet. Albeit, I could get those each time. I'd have to aim almost off the model entirely for a headshot.


    I tried to write down which color the damage was, if it's not listed, it's red damage. Tested the fusion rifles at two ranges.
    If there's anything that's unclear please ask questions.. I have to admit I forgot to see how much ammo the pumpguns used per shot, I'm going to assume it was 2?

    Damage is listed as (Head/Body/Legs) next to weapon description.


    Melee weapons

    my skills:

    220 melee, 152 WEP, 145 ath, 40 end, 102 t-c, 195 agl




    Lowtech Melee Weapon - All damage for lowtech was RED COLORED unless otherwise noted.

    TL Item name Requirements Damage(Head/Body/Legs)

    2 Stiletto STR: 1 (120 / 120 / 96) - too much damage by factor of 10?

    3 Special Alloy Knife STR: 1 (12 / 12 / 9)

    5 Knuckles STR: 1 (6&2 / 6&2 / 5&2)

    10 Tsurugaouka-Sword M-C: 45 didn't see merchant for this

    13 Crummy Baseball Bat STR: 13 M-C: 32 (23 / 23 / 19)

    17 Rusty Double-Edged Sword STR: 17 M-C: 42 (15&1 / 15&1 / 12&1)

    21 Junk Knife STR: 21 M-C: 51 (173 / 173 / 138) - too much damage by factor of 10?

    24 Brassknuckles STR: 24 M-C: 55 (11&11 / 11&11 / 8&8)

    33 Self-constructed Claw STR: 33 M-C: 66 (22&7 / 22&7 / 17&5)

    41 Combat Knife STR: 41 M-C: 75 (52 / 52 / 42)

    44 Baseball Bat STR: 44 M-C: 78 (81 / 81 / 64)

    49 Claw STR: 49 M-C: 82 (32&10 / 32&10 / 26&8)

    57 Double-edged Sword STR: 57 M-C: 89 (51&5 / 51&5 / 40&4)

    65 Face Scratcher' Claw STR: 65 M-C: 95 (43&14 / 43&14 / 34&11)

    76 Special Forces Combat Knife STR: 76 M-C: 103 (97 / 97 / 78)

    80 Paw of Tiger STR: 80 M-C: 105 (42&14&14green / 42&14&14green / 34&11&11green)

    80 Tai-Chi Double-Edged Sword STR: 80 M-C: 105 (71&7 / 71&7 / 57&6)

    82 Perforator STR: 82 M-C: 105 (30&30 / 30&30 / 24&24)

    94 Peacemaker STR: 94 M-C: 112 (169 / 169 / 136)

    97 Vein Ripper STR: 97 M-C: 113 (118 / 118 / 94)

    100 Blade of Ceres STR: 100 M-C: 115 (153 / 153 / 122)

    104 The Dentist STR: 104 M-C: 117 (91 / 91 / 73)

    108 Zsusun STR: 108 M-C: 119 (141 / 141 / 113)

    108 Hurler King Knuckles STR: 108 M-C: 119 (91 / 91 / 73)

    112 Paw of Bear STR: 112 M-C: 121 (136 / 136 / 109)



    Hightech Melee Weapon

    TL Item name Requirements Damage(Head/Body/Legs)

    5 Beggar Electroshocker STR: 5 M-C: 12 T-C: 6 didn't see merchant for this

    15 Unlabeled Electro Shocker STR: 15 M-C: 37 T-C: 18 (13 / 13 / 10) all blue damage

    32 Electro Shocker STR: 32 M-C: 65 T-C: 40 (28 / 28 / 23) all blue damage

    37 Laserblade STR: 37 M-C: 71 T-C: 46 (19red&12blue / 19red&12blue / 15red&10blue)

    62 Laserblade II STR: 62 M-C: 93 T-C: 63 (32red&21blue / 32red&21blue / 25red&17blue)

    71 Tangent High-Voltage Shocker STR: 71 M-C: 100 T-C: 89 (64 / 64 / 51) all blue damage

    76 Long Laserblade STR: 76 M-C: 103 T-C: 72 (39red&26blue / 39red&26blue / 31red&21blue)

    83 Long Laserblade II STR: 83 M-C: 106 T-C: 76 (43red&28blue / 43red&28blue / 34red&23blue)

    90 Energy Soulblade STR: 90 M-C: 110 T-C: 79 didn't see merchant for this

    91 Electric Tempest STR: 91 M-C: 110 T-C: 79 didn't see merchant for this

    91 E24.81 Electric Tempest STR: 91 M-C: 110 T-C: 79 didn't see merchant for this

    110 Thunderbolt STR: 110 M-C: 120 T-C: 87 (167 / 167 / 133) all orange damage

    115 Devil's Grace STR: 115 M-C: 122 T-C: 89 (145 / 145 / 116) all red damage


    RIFLES:

    My Skills: WEP 131, R-C 185, T-C 94


    Lowtech Rifle - All RED COLORED damage unless otherwise noted. 1 shot = 1 ammo consumed unless otherwise noted.

    TL Item name Requirements Damage(Head/Body/Legs)

    2 Lazar Rifle DEX: 2 R-C: 5 didn't see merchant for this

    5 Standard Street Model Rifle DEX: 5 R-C: 12 (22 / 22 / 17) red damage

    6 Mendicant Rifle DEX: 6 R-C: 15 didn't see merchant for this

    9 Pumpgun DEX: 9 R-C: 22 (34 / 34 / 27) red damage

    13 Archer Companion Rifle DEX: 13 R-C: 32 (9 / 9 / 7) damage per shot, 3 shots per click, 3 ammo consumed.

    21 Enhanced Street Model Rifle DEX: 21 R-C: 51 (45 / 45 / 36) red damage

    23 A&W Protector Pumpgun DEX: 23 R-C: 53 (87 / 87 / 70) red damage

    30 Assault Rifle DEX: 30 R-C: 62 (21 / 21 / 16) red damage per shot, 3 shots per click,3 ammo consumed.

    35 Tangent Enforcer Pumpgun DEX: 35 R-C: 68 (133 / 133 / 107) red damage

    38 Unlabeled Gatlin Rifle DEX: 38 R-C: 72 (18 / 18 / 14) red damage per shot, 5 shots per click, 5 ammo consumed.

    40 A&W Steady RF-113 Rifle DEX: 40 R-C: 75 (86 / 86 / 68) red damage

    44 Enhanced Assault Rifle DEX: 44 R-C: 78 (31 / 31 / 24) red damage per shot, 3 shots per click, 3 ammo consumed.

    57 Unregistered 'Black Market' Assault Rifle DEX: 57 R-C: 89 (40 / 40 / 32)

    61 Gatlin Rifle DEX: 61 R-C: 92 (29 / 29 / 23) red damage per shot, 5 shots per click, 5 ammo consumed.

    65 Unregistered 'Black Market' Pumpgun DEX: 65 R-C: 95 didn't see merchant for this

    75 Tsunami Assault Rifle TSU-3265 DEX: 75 R-C: 102 (52 / 52 / 42) damage per shot, 3 shots per click, 3 ammo consumed.

    78 Unregistered 'Black Market' RF-102 Rfile DEX: 78 R-C: 104 (168 / 168 / 134) red

    79 Enhanced Gatlin Rifle DEX: 79 R-C: 104 (38 / 38 / 30) red damage per shot, 5 shots per click, 5 ammo consumed.

    87 Terminator DEX: 87 R-C: 108 (309 / 309 / 247) red

    93 Pain Easer DEX: 93 R-C: 111 (56 / 56 / 45) red damage per shot, 3 shots per click, 3 ammo consumed.

    97 Ionic Shotgun Rifle DEX: 97 R-C: 113 (123 / 123 / 98) red

    98 S.W.A.T Assault Rifle DEX: 98 WoC DEX: 1 R-C: 104 (59 / 49 / 39) red damage per shot, 3 shots per click, 3 ammo consumed.

    102 FAR-6000 Reaper Assault Rifle DEX: 102 WoC DEX: 1 R-C: 108 (59 / 49 / 39) red damage per shot, 3 shots per click, 3 ammo consumed.

    103 Desperado DEX: 103 R-C: 116 (174 / 174 / 139) red damage

    104 Libra DEX: 104 R-C: 117 (39 / 39 / 31) red damage per shot, 5 shots per click, 5 ammo consumed.

    108 Infiltration Assault Rifle IRA-47 INT: 108 WoC DEX: 1 R-C: 114 (58 / 48 / 38) red damage per shot, 4 shots per
    click, 4 ammo consumed

    113 Ceres Assault Rifle CAR-47 DEX: 113 WoC DEX: 1 R-C: 121 (58 / 48 / 38) red damage per shot, 4 shots per click, 4 ammo consumed.

    115 HVSR-90 Ronin Sniper Rifle DEX: 115 WoC DEX: 1 R-C: 123 (99 / 82 / 66) red damage



    Hightech Rifle

    TL Item name Requirements Damage(Head/Body/Legs) 1 shot = 1 ammo consumed unless otherwise noted.

    10 Sniper Rifle R-C: 40

    17 Unlabeled 'Slowfire' Rifle DEX: 17 R-C: 42 T-C: 21 (18 / 18 / 15)blue damage per shot, 3 shots per click, 3
    ammo consumed

    17 Tangent B1 Rifle DEX: 17 R-C: 42 T-C: 21 (146 / 122 / 97) all red

    26 A&W Snowflake Freezer DEX: 26 R-C: 57 T-C: 32 (30 / 30 / 24) all blue

    26 Tangent 'Substandard' Pulselaser Rifle DEX: 26 R-C: 57 T-C: 32 (19 / 19 / 15) orange damage, takes 3 ammo per click but fires 6 projectiles

    38 Tangent Sniper Rifle DEX: 38 R-C: 72 T-C: 47 (273 / 273 / 218) red damage

    42 'Arctic Winter' Freezer DEX: 42 R-C: 76 T-C: 51 (58 / 48 / 39) blue damage per shot, 3 shots per click, 3 ammo consumed.

    48 Tangent 'Sureshot' Laser Rifle DEX: 48 R-C: 81 T-C: 55 (63 / 52 / 42) blue damage per shot, 3 shots per click, 3 ammo consumed

    52 Tangent Pulselaser Rifle DEX: 52 R-C: 85 T-C: 57 (47 / 39 / 31) orange damage, takes 3 ammo per click but
    fires 6 projectiles

    53 HEW Liquid Fire Rifle DEX: 53 R-C: 85 T-C: 58 (58 / 58 / 46) blue damage per shot, 4 shots per click, 4 ammo
    consumed

    56 Tangent Lightbringer FR-118 DEX: 56 R-C: 88 T-C: 60 (red damage)(116 / 116 / 78)-across the arena, (61 / 61 / 49)-point blank

    59 HEW Lightcaster Raygun DEX: 59 R-C: 90 T-C: 61 (108 / 108 / 87) all blue

    63 Tangent Ice Age FZ-31B Freezer DEX: 63 R-C: 94 T-C: 64 (73 / 58 / 58) blue damage per shot, 3 shots per click, 3 ammo consumed

    67 Ryker Laser Rifle LDR-872 DEX: 67 R-C: 97 T-C: 66 (88 / 73 / 59) blue damage per shot, 3 shots per click, 3
    ammo consumed.

    70 Plasma Rifle DEX: 70 R-C: 100 T-C: 68 (92 / 76 / 61) blue damage per shot, 4 shots per click, 4 ammo consumed

    73 Fusion Rifle DEX: 73 R-C: 101 T-C: 70 (red damage)(144 / 120 / 96)-across the arena (97 / 81 / 65)-point blank

    75 Prototype Tangent-Laserbeam-Rifle DEX: 75 R-C: 102 T-C: 71 (82 / 82 / 66) blue damage per shot, 3 shots per
    click, 3 ammo consumed.

    76 R-AS331 Raygun DEX: 76 R-C: 103 T-C: 72 (169 / 141 / 112) blue damage

    79 Tangent Commando Sniper Rifle DEX: 79 R-C: 104 T-C: 74 (569 / 569 / 455) red damage

    81 Tangent 'Stabber' Pulselaser Rifle DEX: 81 R-C: 105 T-C: 75 (73 / 61 / 48) orange damage, takes 3 ammo per click
    but fires 6 projectiles

    82 Enhanced Plasma Rifle DEX: 82 R-C: 106 T-C: 75 (106 / 88 / 70) blue damage per shot, 4 shots per click, 4 ammo consumed

    85 Tangent Lightbringer 2 FR-345 DEX: 85 R-C: 107 T-C: 77 (red damage)(156 / 130 / 104)-across the arena (105 / 88 / 70)-point blank

    88 TG Raygun Rifle DEX: 88 R-C: 109 T-C: 78 (179 / 149 / 119) blue damage

    88 Raygun Yager's Gaze DEX: 88 R-C: 109 T-C: 78 (179 / 149 / 119) blue damage

    98 Ray of God DEX: 98 R-C: 114 T-C: 82 (179 / 149 / 119) blue damage

    101 Thunderstorm DEX: 101 R-C: 115 T-C: 83 (112 / 93 / 75) blue damage per shot, 3 shots per click, 3 ammo consumed.

    105 Redeemer DEX: 105 R-C: 117 T-C: 85 (red damage)(159 / 132 / 106)-across the arena (105 / 88 / 70)-point blank

    110 Healing Light DEX: 110 R-C: 120 T-C: 87 (106 / 88 / 71) blue damage per shot, 3 shots per click, 3 ammo consumed.

    111 Silent Hunter DEX: 111 R-C: 120 T-C: 87 (581 / 581 / 465) red damage

    114 First Love DEX: 114 R-C: 122 T-C: 89 (106 / 88 / 70) blue damage per shot, 4 shots per click, 4 ammo consumed


    115 Disruptor DEX: 115 R-C: 122 T-C: 89 (73 / 61 / 48) orange damage, takes 3 ammo per click but fires 6 projectiles






    Anomalies that are easy to see:

    Stiletto does 120 damage. Junk knife 173. Tangent Commando Sniper damage seems a bit high.

    All pulselasers fire 6 shots but only consume 3.

    I couldn't find some weapons on the merchants, so someone will have to track those down and test those if needed. Otherwise, everything I tested on melee/rifles did damage.

  15. #15

    Default

    Very nice work so far - excactly what we needed. A patch is on the way which addresses weapon frequencies.
    Some of them do have a gap between shots of '0' (seconds) which is leading to a calculation issue (x * 0).
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