1. #16
    freedom for neocron! Torg's Avatar
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    it appears money (NC) is overrated and tech parts are the real currency. Neocron is a stone-age hunter-gatherer-society with a small crafting part, so let's drop this talking about worthless cash and get back to herding for techs. shall we?

  2. #17
    Registered User Celt's Avatar
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    Brammers, all MMOs suffer from monetary expansion. In most MMOs however, there are enough goods/services that require money, that money remains the currency even as it devalues and prices inflate.

    Money is used for only inconsequential items in NC, money is not the currency. As said, techs are the currency.

    The only way to make money into the currency again is to create new ways of spending money.


    If everyone suddenly started using/accepting cash for rares, the economy would fix itself. 'I'll sell you <x part> of <weapon y> for €600k, I'll then spending €400k buying part <z> for rare <a>'. Because everyone views cash as valueless (and it is pretty easy to accumulate), cash is valueless.

    Which is unfortunate, because rares are discrete, whole items and trading a rare for a rare (or a rare for two rares, or whatever) doesn't capture the true value of each item.


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  3. #18
    Huckle Beare' Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Overabundance in supply of cash. obviously. Real credits can be earned easily. That is evident. Curb the supply in to the economy. That could be through a number of ways.

    There still remains the fact there is a large surplus circulating within it and that also needs to be removed. Through time or through action either is good.

    If you want to discuss how to reduce the supply of cash in to the economy in the first place then you need to consider A. Missions and their cash rewards (tl150 and not the quick kill ones) B. The value of mob kills vs Loot Drop from said mob and C. Outposts costs.

    2 of the three have definitely been discussed before and fuck all was done about it. Ops being the most obvious and easiest. The truth was no one could agree upon a definitive strategy and like all great ideas it faded away. Im sure you could pull it up from the bottom of this sub forum.

    The reason for this thread in the first place was Trivaldi mentioned in another thread how you guys were still looking for help with the cash economy etc. This was my suggestion.

    The 1m price tag wasnt a fixed value
    . I love how everyone jumped all over it. It was merely a suggestion but it was quoted and used in dissemination of the post like it was gospel and set in stone. That part is always happening on this forum and makes me believe i am not alone in shortsightedness. The price could have been one, five or ten million and someone would have assumed it was fixed and would have shredded it based on this fact.

    Think about it again then if the price was 20m per part. Are the fanbois REALLY going to dismiss the idea as whack when it would take out a huge chunk of change of anyones wallet should that happen. Or would they just go ok thats so far out of reach i will go back to farming instead.

    Add in the RNG of building the weapon which could come up 0 slot and you have a risk reward scenario to the runner deciding do i risk all that cash on this one piece which then may or may not come up useful.

    If the runner has the cash surplus he might decide to do that. Alternatively if he does not then he will say no fuck this im gonna do it the old fashioned way and carry on farming/grinding/trading and get the parts the usual way.

    However if the runner is fabulously wealthy and or a bit of a gambler he may say well im gonna give it a go. if he does then the money is sucked out the economy.

    And yes i do have a background in economics. Did it as part of my MBA.


    So. Simple ways to remove cash input. OPs. As mentioned by William and plenty of others need an upkeep cost. there are threads about it. i dont need to do that here.


    Second. Loot drops. Make them the way to earn cash. Might need to look at values vs loot weight here because of the transport issue. Your opening a whole can of worms on this one but you asked for it so here goes. If you lower the credits awarded per mob kill you will inherently lower the supply of cash in to the economy. this is a given. You may then find that vehicles become more prevalent as a source of grinding as they can be used to drive a runner around killing lots of stuff and looting it to hold on to to take back and sell. That i see as a good thing.

    However on the flip side comes the very same issue of Inventory space and transport. Monks have 20(?) str and not a lot of transport. Spies 40. PE and tank suddenly becomes the pack mule class. that creates its own problems as people everywhere want a private eye who can become a bagman quite literally carrying all their hard won loot.

    I would be all for the lowering of mob credits per kill in the caves and dungeon areas absolutely as they are there for team xp levelling and money shouldnt be a consideration. That eliminates a heap of creds coming in if people cant get X thousand creds clearing regants boss room every 2 mins. If you make it so that they give lower credits out in the world and its all about loot then really who ever does the most damage on the mob gets first loot which could lead to all kinds of problems on a social level but that would be something to let the player base decide how to handle. I dont think thats something you should be accounting for at a programming level. Its darwinian but such is the way. eventually the person doing the most damage will either get weighed down or give up and go elsewhere.


    Missions (construct/res) well they cost a fuckton of grease with the fails. they ARE a viable way to level a trader purely, however boring they may be, but should they really pay out so much? should it be lowered? big question. A counter point to this is why should you be forced to pay to level a trader (grease costs) when you can level a combat char who will essentially earn money (mob kills etc) by levelling that way. Its like a punishment for being a trader. Problem.

    So you cant fuck with the cash reward from tl150s. Or if you have to then the constructor/researcher should be paid out in a reward of more grease etc to remove the cash issue and/or drop it to a lower amount per mission completed so they make some money but not millions in minutes like is current (next hq etc).


    Is that enough to work with ?
    Last edited by Doc Holliday; 28-04-16 at 02:58.
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  4. #19
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torg View Post
    it appears money (NC) is overrated and tech parts are the real currency. Neocron is a stone-age hunter-gatherer-society with a small crafting part, so let's drop this talking about worthless cash and get back to herding for techs. shall we?
    cant do that mucker because new players need money to farm for everything they need. Cash will always have a part to play in any economy because that is the currency the NPCs accept.

    Celt nailed it tbh.

    Going back to my first point higher level players (the ones who now have rares) need OTHER stuff to spend their money on besides an apartment/gogu/tl150 mission cubes.

    On the subject of TL150 missions there are plenty of things to do to reduce their effect on the economy, one being reduce the failure rate of cubes being ressed and reduce the money paid out to person handing in the job. also increasing the speed of each job (cube) might also go some way towards stopping people macroing as they will be able to do the job while carrying out other tasks at the same time.

    If they could move normally for example whilst carrying out the research then they could be able to do other stuff without risk of failing in the research task. The reason people macro is because the job is so fckin boring just sitting there clicking a button every 45 seconds or whatever it is. If the char had other uses at the same time youd cut down on that aspect I am sure.

    Cutting down time and costs is the biggest thing though I think. This way the researcher can afford to cover his costs that much easier (in terms of lube) and the client can still gain the experience he wants from handing in the mission. Please correct me if i am wrong but I believe that most people use missions to level up the skills they cant improve with normal grind. I dont think too many people "need" the money any more.

    I think this should still be a viable economy for tradeskillers however and they should make a small amount of money relative to their investment in the skill but not a game breaking thing like this.

    Also you should remove the cheaper price of lube at Outposts - they need to be bought in the city by a barterer if you really want a good discount. Please give bartering chars some love off the back of this.

    Going OT slightly but perhaps have a clearly defined cap on bartering? Say 5 points gets a 1% discount from the price for example up to maxmimum of 50% and bring out a range of barter implants to get up to that level. I cant remember the highest barter level you can reach off the top of my head but these figures are purely ball park for the purposes of discussion.



    In terms of cutting down the amount of money coming in to the economy... honestly no I dont think there is much point in that because that would lead to having to rebalance all of the shop prices that vendors sell at and all sorts of other stuff which would pretty much impact the newbs too much and create tonnes of work. Dealing with the cash whilst it is circulating is the big thing. It is also probably - in my view - the easiest way to have an impact generally whilst targetting the group of people you want to have an affect on - the cash rich players who have played the game for some time. New players DO NOT need higher tariffs, penalties and other problems just because they are new and make silly and sometimes costly mistakes.

    Gambling might be another alternative? StockX too should work better, the more drains on cash the healthier the economy becomes.


    ______________________________________________

    TLDR

    Res cube changes

    newbs and cash

    gambling as an alternative - this summarises my post.

    cheers.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  5. #20
    Registered User Celt's Avatar
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    Reducing the supply of money will only change the 'economy' if it results in enough players needing to sell rare (parts or whole items) to others for money in order to avoid getting down to 0 credits.

    Otherwise, it does nothing. Either way people still use rares as currency, only now they have 1.7m credits balance instead of e.g. 7.2m.


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  6. #21

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    Rent.

    Broke for cash? No access to your apartments, only your starter app.
    If you want to fix the game, start with the most essential part: The Community...
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  7. #22
    Registered User Celt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drachenpaladin View Post
    Rent.

    Broke for cash? No access to your apartments, only your starter app.
    Are you charged rent for every day you login? Every hour of playtime? Simply once a week, regardless of play time? Is it a function of income, or assets, or playtime, or simply a flat fee?


    Quote Originally Posted by Oath
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  8. #23

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    No, rent is just going the ones who do not have a lot of money. So they can't enter their appartments or just can't afford a new appartment. And if the stuff you could make enough money, to afford the rent, is in this appartment you have only one option, and this is grind.
    If the rent is cheap, the rich one will never notice it, cause thay make a lot more money in short time.
    If the rent is that expensive that the rich one will notice it too, than the "poor" one will have problems keeping the rent up -> can't get inside the appa if the not going to make it -> and if everything comes together the precious item are in THAT appa you cant enter. And having 2 Boxes at the start appartment is a joke if you want to store some valuable things.

    Why not take the money from chars/clans that have money and make money.
    And the ones who are broke, poor or do bad at making money, have to pay nothing to little.

  9. #24
    Huckle Beare' Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    If a rental idea were to be put in then via 3 apartments should cost a fortune, starter apartments cost nothing and then they should scale up in cost from outzone ones being the cheapest all the way up to via rosso and selected plaza locations (thinking about aesthetics vs location) to be most expensive. that isnt hard to plan.
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