1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hell-demon View Post
    I just think some elements need to be revamped and made contemporary.
    This is in the work as far as I can tell. It's just so damn slow atm. One of the reasons for my opening Post and push for small iterations to regularly hit Titan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hell-demon View Post
    The biggest problem as you have stated, and many others, is Kirk and the I.P. This is the stalemate that is hindering the future. There can be no sequel, no crowdfunding, microtransactions, availability on Steam or any large commercial endevour. The only way out is through some legal means. Maybe a loophole somewhere or some clause that a fine eyed lawyer could find amongst a tonne of paperwork.

    But that in itself is a huge headache. You can see my concern. Nothing is secure. The volunteers could slave away and some twist of cruel fate could see the I.P. holder pulling the plug. If not that then the unpaid volunteers team's own fatigue. We appreciate all you do and your labour of love, but let's be honest this isn't a soup kitchen. You are trying to run an entire MMO, with a small crew who do not get paid, and have moments of low morale and real life interfering. I'm not trying to be Debbie Downer, I'm trying to be realistic in how feasible it is to achieve some of these goals.
    I see your point.

    It is not entirely necessary for neocron to become a big player in the MMO house. But the Team should really start to think about aiming for higher player counts and making a profit of it.

    For advertising, for Infrastructure, for additional Programming work (Feenix for example sometimes gave certain tailored Jobs to freelancer to fix some Code or script some Dungeon) and also something for themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hell-demon View Post
    Neocron is far from perfect and has always been a diamond in the rough. The melt down left by Reakktor has left a very bitter fallout that clings to this I.P. If we can more content then we can boost our playerbase. Yet, time and time again the population is fleeting. The main problem is keeping momentum with the content, which can be a daunting task even for big game developers.
    In terms of content Neocron has the potential to be Timeless (PvP driven, also the possibility to lose items makes you sometimes start from the beginning) although the punishment could be a bit more severe imo (ALWAYS drop a Item, sometimes 2 even with 100 SL).

    There are just a few keypoints needed:

    - More Players
    - More variety in Setups and Weapon Choices (in the work as far as I can tell, but I don't feel confident how you guys try to do it atm and I have some serious doubt about the direction Bragi is taking sometimes)
    Why the hell are Vehicles not used in OPfights more btw? might want to look at this.
    - More Events
    - Additional Profit from Gaining Outpost
    Some Exclusive Base in the Middle of the Map if you hold the majority of OP's? Access to Cosmetic Items? Access to special Vehicles? The possibilities are ENDLESS. There should also be something at stake with OPfights (fixed expensive Clan Assets deployable? Like factories or Stuff? For Faster Research / Production?)

    Regards

    Odi
    -
    Last edited by Odimara Orca; 30-03-16 at 10:10.

  2. #17

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    Great post Trivaldi. It sounds like you guys have a resonable plan and I'm very excited to see some of the balance changes hit Titan at some point.

    If I may offer some insight, as someone who recently came back (with some friends) after being gone for years. One of the biggest things for us is PvE variety. Yes PvP balance is an issue, but having unique areas to explore and level helps keep players in the game. Being able to level new characters in different locations and by doing different things keeps the game fresh. Quests are always fun, but as a lower effort idea, just tweak mob xp, dmg, and hp values to create more leveling areas. It would be great for there to be more options.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trivaldi View Post
    [...]Unfortunately we're at a bit of a stale mate at the moment, which is why there's not been a Titan patch in a very long time. There have been a number of fundamental changes to the inner workings of the game, these changes must all be delivered together. Some of these changes have roadblocks (the alpha problem causing trees to stop being transparent is a tool-chain issue) or certain elements of interdependencies still need to be finalised (PSI weapons and drones have their own cryptic Ouija, we're standardising where possible and building the specific stuff into a more manageable set of additional components) before we can release "the whole package".

    As balance relies on a lot of these new fundamental changes, we cant implement better systems for guns, implants and armour until we finish the foundation work. [...]
    Hi Triv,

    first I want to thank you and the team too for working so much for the community and the game over the last years.

    If the described problem above is stopping the process atm then wouldn't it be possible to make Vedeena the new Titan II ?

    Technically it would mean to clone it, move it, and make it the new live server.

    And after the current Vedeena environment has been cloned to the new live system Titan II and stabilized, then it could be cloned again to be the new test and development system Vedeena II, as planned.

    People are craving for these changes. And even if there are some things missing like PSI stuff I'd rather have all changes online because many other things do work.

    The first step would be to check the technical possibilities and to ask the community about a new Titan II.

    I would even give up my 2 accs full of chars and stuff on Titan if I had to, to start all over again. We did it already when we moved to Titan from Terra.

    Regards
    Ivan

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Eres View Post
    Hi Triv,

    first I want to thank you and the team too for working so much for the community and the game over the last years.

    If the described problem above is stopping the process atm then wouldn't it be possible to make Vedeena the new Titan II ?

    Technically it would mean to clone it, move it, and make it the new live server.

    And after the current Vedeena environment has been cloned to the new live system Titan II and stabilized, then it could be cloned again to be the new test and development system Vedeena II, as planned.

    People are craving for these changes. And even if there are some things missing like PSI stuff I'd rather have all changes online because many other things do work.

    The first step would be to check the technical possibilities and to ask the community about a new Titan II.

    I would even give up my 2 accs full of chars and stuff on Titan if I had to, to start all over again. We did it already when we moved to Titan from Terra.

    Regards
    Ivan
    Thing is, Vedeena is virtually unplayable right now because of those issues. We're not happy with a lot of the Vedeena status quo, i'm referring to finishing changes by removing roadblocks. Rather than those roadblocks stopping us from patching Titan. We could patch Titan to the Vedeena state tomorrow but we'd lose a lot more players than we'd gain as a few things are half baked.

    For example the new fundamentals built under 'regular' weapons means that Drones and PSI are essentially entirely broken as their old foundation no longer really exists. We're a bit stuck in the middle. We need to get these changes finished so we can have all weapon types working on new foundations. Only Zoltan can give you more detail on that though.
    Trivaldi
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  5. #20
    Bitter Veteran Hell-demon's Avatar
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    ZOOOOOLLLLLTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    *shakes fist*
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  6. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hell-demon View Post
    ZOOOOOLLLLLTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    *shakes fist*
    SUMMON THE DEMON

    ZOOOOOOLLLLLTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!

    *sacrifices goat*

  7. #22
    Roger Ramjet Fanboy Number 1 RogerRamjet's Avatar
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    Dinklebeeeeeerrrrrgggggggggggggg

  8. #23
    Registered User eNTi's Avatar
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    i think balancing changes should be incremental and not be done on verdeena. neocron once HAD a "fun" balancing (hybrids anyone?). that's one of the reasons why so many people have fond memories of that time. it sure wasn't perfect but it was better what followed after wards. every iteration made balancing worse it seemed. now it is so bad and convoluted (due to a few pointless additions like nanintes) that you had to start from scratch and that's why it is a mess. the whole idea of all those broad sweeps (removing comma values e.g.) seem like logical steps but the ramifications can already be seen in the stagnation of the development and the motivation of the team. there is no silver bullet to this problem.

    i'd suggest you keep tweaking the balancing on titan with the help of active community feedback and only use verdeena to test the changes you do technology wise. balancing is never done and will always need feedback of as many people as possible. changes you do based on pure number tweaks (be it with the help of a tool) most likely will be a disaster.

    the biggest problem is that everything should seem fair enough to most people and yet not everything should be the same. only a large enough use base can give you that feedback. some "numbers" will be much stronger or weaker in certain peoples' hands so doing it "by the numbers" will not lead to a satisfactory outcome. just remember that balancing was once "fun" even with the commas or maybe just because of them. i would leave them in. drop nanintes and give everyone back some psi. look for stuff people like, what makes them feel powerful. if you are at a place where almost everyone feels powerful and is able to win a fight on even terms you are doing good. i just don't think you can really quantify balancing by only looking at a spreadsheet. leaving the people factor out of the equations might look good on paper, but it will destroy the fun. you need op stuff as well either to give noobs the chance to compete despite their skill or to give very skilled players that prefer a more rounded play style more challenge across the spectrum of all players. changes only need to be made if suddenly everyone jumps a certain bandwagon like we had in monkocron and most of the time these change need not be too big. quite often the nerf hammer is swung too hard in such cases.

    as for the idea with changing the engine to ue4... i'm all for it. vulkan and native linux ftw! at least experiment with it and see if you can import the assets or can write a tool / make the community write a tool for importing them.
    Last edited by eNTi; 03-04-16 at 10:40.

  9. #24
    Bitter Veteran Hell-demon's Avatar
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    I do think nanites were badly implemented. They make psi on spies fairly redundant and the heal tool out heals psi healing. I think a big problem has always been balance and I agree every iteration of the balancing project has broken a lot of elements.

    I think implants were fine before the use of decimals and retweaking values that made no sense.

    Look at these old imp stats, they seem reasonable: http://www.techhaven.org/db/legacy-implants/brain

    As it stands very few setups are viable. Agressive monks are glass canons and do some pretty weak damage compared to other builds. Private Eyes are a mess and have a few weapons cut off from them due to level requirements - not to mention the ball ache of WoC.

    Melee tanks are weak as shit and the weapons break way too much. Heavy weapon tanks are good as always.

    Spy seems to be class du jour. They have a range of WoC weapons available to them, cloaking devices which are essentially "nah nah you can't hit me for 10 seconds" and a load of skills both in trade and fighting.

    I do think hybrids would be a good addition if balanced properly. A good mix of offensive and defensive abilities. Able to dish damage and buff at the same time, but not exactly Godlike in either area. However, they have always been a pain to balance. A monk that zaps your ass and then resurrect his fallen comrades, or outheals your damage and then poisons you is a bitch.


    In my ideal world of balancing it would be get rid of decimals, restore previous neocron implant values, rethink WoC (five levels of pure useless), rethink nanites, give tanks back psi and get rid of the tank rifle and pistol power armour. Also buff Private Eyes and make cloaked spies cloaked but also give them the chance to get slappped while doing so.
    Last edited by Hell-demon; 03-04-16 at 13:57.
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  10. #25
    Roger Ramjet Fanboy Number 1 RogerRamjet's Avatar
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    Agree with most of what Enti and Hell-Demon have said. You knew something was wrong when OP fights were dominated by spies. The closest the game ever got to balance in my opinion was at the end of NC1. Every class was on the battle field and this was due to preference as opposed to necessity. I still think the monk-o-cron we saw during NC2 could have been avoided with a few simple tweaks.

    Making the spy WoC weapon lotech too, meaning Spies have damage + speed + stealth. Makes the PE redundant in it's old role of a solo raiding character. You just role a spy.

  11. #26
    Bitter Veteran Hell-demon's Avatar
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    Agreed and I don't think this is nostalgia goggles being on sale around here.

    Back in Neocron 1 melee tanks were viable and so were heavies. Private eyes with some tweaking of imps could actually use ressurection, giving them an extra string to their bow, but they were also handy with a literal crossbow and cleaned up nicely in plaza 2.

    Monks were an issue but it could have been tweaked. Now it's a simple you are either APU and have no defensive abilities or buffs - or you are a passive monk and essentially a buttplug to someone else. You cannot viably level up solo as a PPU and many people have to roll APU and then do some serious respecing afterward. Private Eyes are completly borked right now.

    They rely heavily on implants and drugs, which is fine but they have also been screwed over by item levels and said implants. Private eyes use range weapons and that is what is viable, yet a few iterations of balancing have brought in new items which don't work; specifically that of a heavy weapons role. We have power armour available which boosts strength but not enough implants to really put private eyes on par with a heavy weapons specialist such as a tank. It's just not viable and you will never see a PE using a rare Cursed Soul and doing justice on the battle field, especially when he is most proficient with Dex based weapons.

    Now you can say that he is jack of all trades and so that option should be available, but it's not fleshed out enough to make for a well rounded character. There is also no realy melee option and a few implants were changed that made it harder to reach those item requirement sweet spots. Viability is crucial to the pe and it's hard when every one does everything better and the pe is very mediocre. He should be balanced that all areas of his skills compliment the class.

    Simialr stuff has been done with the Tank in regards to trying to make a rifle/pistol build viable. It isn't. Square peg, round hole problem. The private eye and spy can outshine this build, but it's also redundant when the tanks heavy weapon build trumps a lot of other builds. I think a problem with balancing is homogenizing some classes and builds when they are clearly specialised and don't fit that mould. Not all classes should be fluid. This balancing project needs a lot of work.

    There was a time when spies were underpowereed and now they are the ruling class. You need only look around the streets of neocron to see there are three heavily used classes and builds. Heavy tank, ranged spy or just spies in general and the odd PPU to help the other two classes.

    Everyone else struggles. I love my melee tank but I can't do much with him. The damage so weak and the weapons so brittle. Don't get me started on WoC. WoC is the worst implemented element of neocron. Scrap it.

    A worthless money, experience and time sink that only benefits the spy class and gives access to overpowered weapons. Since it's implementation it has had very little content:

    *No weapons for psi monks
    *No melee weapons for tanks and only 1 heavy weapon
    *No drone weapons
    *No implants for any class
    *No reason to get the other 4 levels of WoC, there is no content for it
    *Very expensive
    *Time consuming and more so if you're a Private Eye
    *Cosmetic armour for evey class is the only equal footing
    *Mostly pistols and rifles

    WoC needs a rethink too.
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  12. #27
    Registered User eNTi's Avatar
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    i'm sure there are people who will disagree with me and also have more expertise, but i was always of the impression that pe was too heavily reliant on drugs to do anything at least moderately good. it sure was a happy place for some very skilled players that liked a challenge but having to use drugs just to wear something is ridiculous.

    i actually never played any character long enough to get to woc. i found it very tedious and also laughable. lore wise woc is just stupid. ak with poison ticks that's better than a plasma gun? common... woc should have been some experimental stuff with great potential and also possibility for disaster for the people using it. not just a straight upgrade.

    i for one dislike the idea of making everything just plain better without its drawbacks. there should be hard choices with fun consequences. not easy goto solutions everyone just uses. skill and dedication needs to be rewarded again. rares should be hard to come by. inflation is a big issue in neocron imho.

    that's a far cry from the problems the game really faces though. for all the hard work the volunteer team puts into neocron i have a feeling they've utterly destroyed its base and don't know where to start repairing it. hence the lack of motivation and no meaningful updates in years really. maybe i'm wrong... actually i hope i'm wrong.

    there is a lack of leadership or direction. a lack of vision. sometimes something can emerge out of a community but the volunteer team is just to closed for that to happen. this is were a lot of successful open source communities shine but as was said in the past it is most unlikely that neocron will ever (be able) to go that route.

    i will keep following the sparse conversations in these forums. it's getting pretty silent over the last months though. this can no longer be attributed to some holidays... i've never encountered something dying that slowly before and i hope for some kind of resurrection before the servers will shut down for good.

  13. #28
    Bitter Veteran Hell-demon's Avatar
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    Yeah some Private Eyes have a drug problem (insert pun here). Some builds require doping up but the drawback is you need to keep popping them and the overuse of drugs gives you a fuzzy screen effect. Everyone else fights just fine while you are trying to shoot shit in what appears as a snow storm on your screen.

    I agree with you eNTI Neocron has crazy inflation. Some weapons and implants cost 15 million credits and the credit limit on chars is 20 million. Unressed rares are now a new form of currency, which sees people trading hundreds of them for weapons, but these parts could also be used for creating weapons that could go into the economy. Some players will only accept rares because they have all the money they need. So a trade character might struggle if his only income is trade, while a rares farmer gets essentially more income. But not much to be done there but tweak some loot tables and mob damage.

    there is a lack of leadership or direction. a lack of vision. sometimes something can emerge out of a community but the volunteer team is just to closed for that to happen. this is were a lot of successful open source communities shine but as was said in the past it is most unlikely that neocron will ever (be able) to go that route.

    i will keep following the sparse conversations in these forums. it's getting pretty silent over the last months though. this can no longer be attributed to some holidays... i've never encountered something dying that slowly before and i hope for some kind of resurrection before the servers will shut down for good.
    This is a massive problem. I'd like to draw your attention to this article:

    https://biobreak.wordpress.com/2013/...y-7-neocron-2/

    The tl;dr is summed up as this:

    "Would I play it again? Hm. No, but not because of any fault of the game itself. I love cyberpunk settings and despite the aged graphics, there’s obvious substance here. No, I wouldn’t play it again mostly because of time factors and the fact that it’s not really being supported by any company. Investing time into a game without knowing if it’s going to evaporate tomorrow is a daunting proposition"

    I share this sentiment to some degree and I'm sure others do too.

    Now let's imagine you are a new player. Scrap your nostalgia goggles and look at things from a newcomer's eyes. You stumble across Neocron, most likely word of mouth because there is no advertising for this, and you want to play. You fire up the game and try and navigate through tutorials and the bewildering newbie area. You get to the city and it is empty. If you happen to come across Plaza you may find 5 people (from my experience at the moment). A Massively Multiplayer game with no people.

    You go online and check the fourms. Very little to no activity. Check the twitter. No activity apart from server down for maintenance, a quote from a faction and pictures from an event years ago. Hardly any new patches too.

    Dead game. That's what you will think. Hardly any players and unless you come across http://www.techhaven.org/ you may struggle with the learning curve.

    I've seen the population increase for a bit when the double xp weekend was in effect. Now it's dwindling. If the team did a whole week of double xp, had competitions and events for a week, plus volunteers to help newbies you could boost the population for a time. Newbie week or something.

    Food for thought.
    Last edited by Hell-demon; 03-04-16 at 21:54.
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  14. #29
    Registered User eNTi's Avatar
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    the newbie experience must be pretty dire at this point... but some people will actually appreciate the lack of hand holding. you can pretty much solo almost the entire pve experience and it has always been fun for me. it is only when you get to the details that the utter lack of polish is getting apparent. much of it depends on the class. if you role a hacker you might as well just not play. the experience is terrible imho. hacknet should be removed again. i think the lack of information regarding the current state of balancing is something that will drive new people away. if you are lucky and go for a rifle spy or a heavy tank you will probably have a good time... for other classes it can get pretty tricky. people just don't and can't know what they are getting themselves into. the persistent bugs since neocrons' inception and the lack of leadership from a bigger community are just not making that easier. i really think that those areas should be addressed first... show stoppers for new players.

    another big part is the market. especially for rares. with the right setup you can farm them like mad. as a pve player and farmer myself i think the distribution is pretty bad atm. mobs that offer a real threat also used to drop something good sometimes. this is all too random imho and there are some good farm spots but not nearly enough. i'd suggest tweaking the drop chances making some things drop in some areas more than in others. i know there are some areas (mc5) where this is already true and this also makes for some interesting pvp/pve interaction sometimes but this should be the norm not the exception. then there's the actual threat. some (fire mobs) are much too dangerous for their level and drop chances and overall some still drop way too much. something that is rather not helping either is the fact that due to the balancing some rares are actually worthless... i'd even argue most are pretty worthless which is really sad. more side grades less best in slot.

    ...and well don't get me started with woc... just remove that from the game for the time being and rethink it. also... there's power armors. make them hard to get and a really interesting choice. not just a must have. this game has so much potential for being interesting and offer hard and FUN choices for the end game. choices should matter and also should have some lasting consequences. loming has become so easy... it hardly matters. i remember times where i had to sit literal hours in plaza for wanting to do something else. choices only matter if there are real consequences. today every game puts quality of life before choice and that makes me really sad.

    as for double xp ... i don't know why. what is the point? why rush to the end of the journey even faster? if you don't have to earn something it doesn't really matter. it is already way too easy to max some characters. i don't think double xp is a good thing. it's easy and cheap but it doesn't serve any particular goal.

  15. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by eNTi View Post
    i think balancing changes should be incremental and not be done on verdeena.
    Personally I'd like to see that too. We do need to make some sweeping changes though to get to a better place from which to increment. If we only rounded down all values to remove decimals (a needless complexity) in a patch, there would be plenty of annoyances.
    Quote Originally Posted by eNTi View Post
    neocron once HAD a "fun" balancing (hybrids anyone?). that's one of the reasons why so many people have fond memories of that time. it sure wasn't perfect but it was better what followed after wards. every iteration made balancing worse it seemed. now it is so bad and convoluted (due to a few pointless additions like nanintes) that you had to start from scratch and that's why it is a mess. the whole idea of all those broad sweeps (removing comma values e.g.) seem like logical steps but the ramifications can already be seen in the stagnation of the development and the motivation of the team. there is no silver bullet to this problem.
    Other factors play into the motivational issues. I am pleased to say we're seeing some great progress in some areas again. Hopefully others will follow.

    Quote Originally Posted by eNTi View Post
    i'd suggest you keep tweaking the balancing on titan with the help of active community feedback and only use verdeena to test the changes you do technology wise. balancing is never done and will always need feedback of as many people as possible. changes you do based on pure number tweaks (be it with the help of a tool) most likely will be a disaster. the biggest problem is that everything should seem fair enough to most people and yet not everything should be the same. only a large enough use base can give you that feedback. some "numbers" will be much stronger or weaker in certain peoples' hands so doing it "by the numbers" will not lead to a satisfactory outcome.
    As above, I'd like to see that and I do think that's where we will get. You're quite right in saying we need active use of things to get a better picture. Since we're entirely free to play it makes more sense that we can keep iterating on the "retail" servers so long as it's not catastrophic change every patch (which is why we're making some big changes all at once, to hopefully reduce the pain).

    Quote Originally Posted by Hell-demon View Post
    I do think nanites were badly implemented. They make psi on spies fairly redundant and the heal tool out heals psi healing. I think a big problem has always been balance and I agree every iteration of the balancing project has broken a lot of elements.
    As with everything, we're open to suggestions and idea on how these can be better implemented. If we can improve an aspect of the game we will (albeit 'eventually').
    Quote Originally Posted by Hell-demon View Post
    I think implants were fine before the use of decimals and retweaking values that made no sense.
    Plenty of us agree. That's why we're changing those things which we've discussed openly in the Vedeena forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hell-demon View Post
    As it stands very few setups are viable.
    Variety is the spice of life. That's the aim. Variety in setups, variety in weapons, variety in who and what you see on the battlefield.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hell-demon View Post
    In my ideal world of balancing it would be get rid of decimals, restore previous neocron implant values, rethink WoC (five levels of pure useless), rethink nanites, give tanks back psi and get rid of the tank rifle and pistol power armour. Also buff Private Eyes and make cloaked spies cloaked but also give them the chance to get slappped while doing so.
    Removing decimals is happening. Implant values are being reworked but Bragi is your man for that. Again we're discussing those changes out in the open. Your fleshed out ideas and constructive criticism are always welcome in the Vedeena forum threads. Yes, we need more WoC usage, that's on our list (it's a big list). We'd love to hear your thoughts in dedicated threads in the Brainport. The rest of balance issues please do either create your own proposals in the Brainport or chip in on the relevant threads in the Vedeena forum.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hell-demon View Post
    Don't get me started on WoC. WoC is the worst implemented element of neocron. Scrap it.

    A worthless money, experience and time sink that only benefits the spy class and gives access to overpowered weapons. Since it's implementation it has had very little content:

    *No weapons for psi monks
    *No melee weapons for tanks and only 1 heavy weapon
    *No drone weapons
    *No implants for any class
    *No reason to get the other 4 levels of WoC, there is no content for it
    *Very expensive
    *Time consuming and more so if you're a Private Eye
    *Cosmetic armour for evey class is the only equal footing
    *Mostly pistols and rifles

    WoC needs a rethink too.
    We'd rather rethink it, expand it, improved it than scrap it. Weapon balance is obviously something we're working on to address any overpowered items. There will always be a "flavour of the week" setup/class/weapon though.

    The idea is and always should have been that WoC is the optional extra for players with more time. It should reward you with different things not better things.

    "Oh look at that weapon! That power armour looks really cool! That player is really competitive like me but I've never seen that weapon/armour/thing before... maybe I'll invest a bunch of time so I can be a bit more unique!"

    That sort of thing. Oh and as for not getting started... the lore around WoC's implementation makes me cry inside.

    Quote Originally Posted by eNTi View Post
    i for one dislike the idea of making everything just plain better without its drawbacks. there should be hard choices with fun consequences. not easy goto solutions everyone just uses. skill and dedication needs to be rewarded again. rares should be hard to come by. inflation is a big issue in neocron imho.
    Please write up your ideas in the Brainport.

    Quote Originally Posted by eNTi View Post
    that's a far cry from the problems the game really faces though. for all the hard work the volunteer team puts into neocron i have a feeling they've utterly destroyed its base and don't know where to start repairing it. hence the lack of motivation and no meaningful updates in years really. maybe i'm wrong... actually i hope i'm wrong.
    You'll be pleased to know you are wrong then.

    Quote Originally Posted by eNTi View Post
    there is a lack of leadership or direction. a lack of vision. sometimes something can emerge out of a community but the volunteer team is just to closed for that to happen. this is were a lot of successful open source communities shine but as was said in the past it is most unlikely that neocron will ever (be able) to go that route.
    Have you read the whole thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by eNTi View Post
    i've never encountered something dying that slowly before and i hope for some kind of resurrection before the servers will shut down for good.
    We have no intention of shutting down the servers any time soon. We have stated many times what we are and how we see the game going and the reasons for that. This is a labour of love. I shan't go into it again in the same thread though, having written about this topic already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hell-demon View Post
    I agree with you eNTI Neocron has crazy inflation. Some weapons and implants cost 15 million credits and the credit limit on chars is 20 million. Unressed rares are now a new form of currency, which sees people trading hundreds of them for weapons, but these parts could also be used for creating weapons that could go into the economy. Some players will only accept rares because they have all the money they need. So a trade character might struggle if his only income is trade, while a rares farmer gets essentially more income. But not much to be done there but tweak some loot tables and mob damage.
    I for one would love to see this fixed. We've discussed it a few times internally and have several options we could use. The issue is that this is a very delicate thing to adjust. I think '


    Quote Originally Posted by Hell-demon View Post
    This is a massive problem. I'd like to draw your attention to this article:

    https://biobreak.wordpress.com/2013/...y-7-neocron-2/
    Thanks for this. Very valuable thoughts and opinions in there.

    Now let's imagine you are a new player. Scrap your nostalgia goggles and look at things from a newcomer's eyes. You stumble across Neocron, most likely word of mouth because there is no advertising for this, and you want to play. You fire up the game and try and navigate through tutorials and the bewildering newbie area. You get to the city and it is empty. If you happen to come across Plaza you may find 5 people (from my experience at the moment). A Massively Multiplayer game with no people.

    You go online and check the fourms. Very little to no activity. Check the twitter. No activity apart from server down for maintenance, a quote from a faction and pictures from an event years ago. Hardly any new patches too.

    Dead game. That's what you will think. Hardly any players and unless you come across http://www.techhaven.org/ you may struggle with the learning curve.

    I've seen the population increase for a bit when the double xp weekend was in effect. Now it's dwindling. If the team did a whole week of double xp, had competitions and events for a week, plus volunteers to help newbies you could boost the population for a time. Newbie week or something.

    Food for thought.[/QUOTE]
    Yes, extra man power would be nice.

    Beyond this point I can't say anything other than we agree with you on most points? We know there's plenty to fix, we know there's plenty to do. We'd love to see constructive proposals for ways we can fix or improve things like inflation, like Wisdom of Ceres, like the New Player Experience. Many critiques we receive is that we don't do enough and that we need to let the community help and that we need to take more people on. The best way anyone, right out of the gate, can help us is by posting their ideas, suggestions, proposals on the forum in a sensible manner so we can use those as foundations for the next thing we can address.

    As already discussed in this thread, we know there has been a huge gap in progress. I've tried to explain how that happened but the gears are turning and things are happening again.
    Trivaldi
    Neocron Support Team
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