1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by onero S View Post
    Ideally what would happen is while someone is healed, the PPU would generate xp as a percent (for instance 50) of the xp earned by the person being healed.

    For example:

    Suppose you have a three person team, an APU, a tank, and a PPU. The APU and Tank are aoeing and let's suppose the apu is generating 1.1 units of xp while the tank is generating 0.9 units of xp. If both are healed, the PPU would generate an additional unit of XP.

    The math on this is fairly simple then, with groups of more than 2 dmg dealers, PPUs would actually generate additional (bonus) xp, this encouraging teaming.
    It's just that healing xp will most likely be exploited by afk bots. Put the tank in a spot where he gets aggro'd by ranged enemies but gets backed into a corner, and hide your ppu in a way that the enemies only aggro the tank. The ppu always aims at the tank (afk) and clicks his heal every 30 sec or so automatically. Since the tank (probably) never gets pushed from his spot and doesn't take enough damage to die, this is infinite overnight xp.

  2. #17
    Teh won and ownly! Arcaine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odimara Orca View Post
    Then People Abuse on OZ4
    No matter what you are trying, people will always find a way to abuse it.....but to afk heal in oz 4 will be a little more dangerous than in safezones
    I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
    Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
    I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
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    Time to die.

  3. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Izeo View Post
    It's just that healing xp will most likely be exploited by afk bots. Put the tank in a spot where he gets aggro'd by ranged enemies but gets backed into a corner, and hide your ppu in a way that the enemies only aggro the tank. The ppu always aims at the tank (afk) and clicks his heal every 30 sec or so automatically. Since the tank (probably) never gets pushed from his spot and doesn't take enough damage to die, this is infinite overnight xp.
    It's not infinite overnight XP, it's the same as doing it with just the tank except the PPU will generate the same amount of XP for himself. At this point in Neocron, I think afk leveling is the least of our worries. Let's make pve fun and I bet the problem will sort itself out.

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by onero S View Post
    It's not infinite overnight XP, it's the same as doing it with just the tank except the PPU will generate the same amount of XP for himself. At this point in Neocron, I think afk leveling is the least of our worries. Let's make pve fun and I bet the problem will sort itself out.
    This whole thing is a secondary issue though.

    I don't mind lvling as apu then reloming.

    I do mind playing pistol on my monk to max dex...

  5. #20
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Not sure if you guys know this but repairing vehicles is the only current viable way to max dex as a monk.

    Everything else in this thread is open to abuse of mechanics, just like everything in this game. Dont mean to pour water onto the fires of a good idea but with the age of the technology running NC people WILL try to macro the shit out of anything they can get away with. The whole system is riddled with places that can have macros circumvent the actual "grind". The only way to stop it is to provide players with an enjoyable experience so that they dont need to macro. Trying to fix the problem from a code perspective (with all of its well documented issues) is a non-starter.

    also - Zoltan wont let any of you near the code. That by itself is one of the biggest issues stalling development.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  6. #21
    former king of saturn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bragi View Post
    In the early days, PPUs did get xp from healing spells (as it's negative 'damage' done to a target).

    Cue PPUs macroing heal sanctums in P1.
    There would be significantly less XP gains than during betail given there aren't even 1/10th of the runners flowing through there nowadays.

    Plus... Who cares. If people are capping characters, they might actually be playing the game. Something this the pop needs. Badly.


    Imposing a fix from yesteryear which was designed to thwart a few players, who undoubtedly went and found another way, has negatively effected hundreds if not thousands of "good" players. Isn't it time to try a new approach?

  7. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    also - Zoltan wont let any of you near the code. That by itself is one of the biggest issues stalling development.
    But why? We just want to help speed up the Development process :-(.

    There's to many low hanging fruits not picked yet!

  8. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    Not sure if you guys know this but repairing vehicles is the only current viable way to max dex as a monk.

    Everything else in this thread is open to abuse of mechanics, just like everything in this game. Dont mean to pour water onto the fires of a good idea but with the age of the technology running NC people WILL try to macro the shit out of anything they can get away with. The whole system is riddled with places that can have macros circumvent the actual "grind". The only way to stop it is to provide players with an enjoyable experience so that they dont need to macro. Trying to fix the problem from a code perspective (with all of its well documented issues) is a non-starter.

    also - Zoltan wont let any of you near the code. That by itself is one of the biggest issues stalling development.

    I agree with this sentiment whole heartedly. I think the biggest thing neocron needs, possibly even more than balance changes, is more variety and fun in PvE and world exploration.

    Also, I know all too well about vehicle repairing... it is so boring.

    Haven't really heard much about people not being let near code, isn't the entire dev team volunteer?

  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by onero S View Post
    Haven't really heard much about people not being let near code, isn't the entire dev team volunteer?
    Yeah. I'd just be interested in having a look at the Code.

    I don't have to be able to do the implementation work myself, but digging through it and making suggestions might be useful as well...

  10. #25

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    Let's get back to the root idea. Say we can alter XP gains based on the actions taken by different classes. What other areas of you see as problem areas? Monk DEX being a prime example.
    Trivaldi
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  11. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trivaldi View Post
    Let's get back to the root idea. Say we can alter XP gains based on the actions taken by different classes. What other areas of you see as problem areas? Monk DEX being a prime example.
    overall

    20 is reachable through quests.
    Constitution up to 40 also works.
    If a secondary sill goes above 20 it's just a pain (500 TL150 Res missions.. COME ON!!!!)

    Monk:

    Intelligence
    Dexterity

    Spy:

    Strength

    Tank:

    Constitution (like srsly)

    I don't have any experience with a PE yet.

    But i'd wager

    Intelligence and PSI

    Are troublesome

    Regards

    Odi

  12. #27

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    ^and monk Str. I had so much trouble with monk Str that I gave up on a monk and made a PE (and this is coming from an NC1 player... but I just never played a monk.)

    I think dealing damage with fists should level str/dex at some rate. This would only help out new players and low level characters for the first ~5 levels but it probably wouldn't be uncommon for a new player to be punching scorpions in MC5. If he is a monk and he is observant enough to watch his xp and realizes he gained 0 xp, he might think the game is bugged. I'm not sure if spies gain xp with fists. But really, since it's like "unequipped" damage, it should probably be the same for all four classes.

  13. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Izeo View Post
    ^and monk Str. I had so much trouble with monk Str that I gave up on a monk and made a PE (and this is coming from an NC1 player... but I just never played a monk.)

    I think dealing damage with fists should level str/dex at some rate. This would only help out new players and low level characters for the first ~5 levels but it probably wouldn't be uncommon for a new player to be punching scorpions in MC5. If he is a monk and he is observant enough to watch his xp and realizes he gained 0 xp, he might think the game is bugged. I'm not sure if spies gain xp with fists. But really, since it's like "unequipped" damage, it should probably be the same for all four classes.
    Strength 20 you can easily reach through aggie missions.

    Also the Stats should rise while using your MAIN Skill.

    A Monk with Rifle

    or a Spy with a Sword

    That's just dumb and counterintuitive.

  14. #29

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    I wouldn't say it's dumb or counter-intuitive. I think what you meant to say is, "I think it's dumb that anyone would ever think to make a melee spy or a rifle monk" which is an opinion - even if you are mostly right there, if a player has a spy and he realizes his Str is super low, I think it's TOTALLY intuitive for him to think, "Oh, I should use Str-based skills to level my Str - maybe I can use melee, kill some stuff with that, and LoM it later". Same with a pistol monk for leveling Dex. Seems logical to me, and seems like it would be a more fun way to level those minor skills, compared to doing missions over and over. I think it should be a viable route.

  15. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Izeo View Post
    I wouldn't say it's dumb or counter-intuitive. I think what you meant to say is, "I think it's dumb that anyone would ever think to make a melee spy or a rifle monk" which is an opinion - even if you are mostly right there, if a player has a spy and he realizes his Str is super low, I think it's TOTALLY intuitive for him to think, "Oh, I should use Str-based skills to level my Str - maybe I can use melee, kill some stuff with that, and LoM it later". Same with a pistol monk for leveling Dex. Seems logical to me, and seems like it would be a more fun way to level those minor skills, compared to doing missions over and over. I think it should be a viable route.
    I think missions are ok, but what I would really like to see is incentive to team. A solo player could do missions, or they could cap with another player on their team. Team XP should share from stat to stat.

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