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  1. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tino View Post
    So your saying if you take 2 pills you should have normal vision longer than if you took 1 pill? How does this make sense...if you take 2 pills your gonna feel the effects quicker because you have more drugs in your system...not longer...learn 2 drug please
    That would matter if drugs had a spin-up time, but they don't, they work instant.
    Also, the more active components are in your system the longer it takes to deplete and convert them, so effects CAN last longer with a higher dose... and potentially more deadly.
    If you want to fix the game, start with the most essential part: The Community...
    Quote Originally Posted by Danae
    <&Danae> i don't like anything that's furry, totally dependant on me, and shits and pisses in sneaky places
    <&Danae> i have kids, i don't need pets ^^

  2. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by DomeOfTerror View Post
    Sounds like you are mad you can't gank people who are busy killing mobs, aww gee,
    what a shame.

    Here's a clue: the mobs are for everyone and you can out DPS other players and get
    the loot LE or no LE and if you can't out DPS those LE'd players then you need to up
    your game.
    Might be hard for you to apprehend but this scenario is NOT about ganking people but rather the options someone has when an LEd player decides he wants your loot/mobs.

    Your "solution" forces me to play your PvE playstyle (where I am at a disadvantage because I can get killed by runners) and "compete" with your stupid PvE DPS or whatever. There's a shitton of people like me who think this is so much fun they'd rather log out and play another game.


    Quote Originally Posted by Drachenplatatin
    If ignoring players is an interference for you and your playstyle... good night, sweet prince.
    Like the other guy mentioned before, ignoring is not an option. The two options are: Quarrel with some LEd PvE guy about the loot or leave/play another game.

  3. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRobot View Post
    Like the other guy mentioned before, ignoring is not an option. The two options are: Quarrel with some LEd PvE guy about the loot or leave/play another game.
    I pity you fool(s).
    If you want to fix the game, start with the most essential part: The Community...
    Quote Originally Posted by Danae
    <&Danae> i don't like anything that's furry, totally dependant on me, and shits and pisses in sneaky places
    <&Danae> i have kids, i don't need pets ^^

  4. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRobot View Post
    Might be hard for you to apprehend but this scenario is NOT about ganking people but rather the options someone has when an LEd player decides he wants your loot/mobs.

    Your "solution" forces me to play your PvE playstyle (where I am at a disadvantage because I can get killed by runners) and "compete" with your stupid PvE DPS or whatever. There's a shitton of people like me who think this is so much fun they'd rather log out and play another game.




    Like the other guy mentioned before, ignoring is not an option. The two options are: Quarrel with some LEd PvE guy about the loot or leave/play another game.
    Make an LE thread, if you think it necessary, but I am not going to respond to any more
    of this off topic crap because it is taking away from the purpose of the thread: DRUGS.

  5. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tino View Post
    So your saying if you take 2 pills you should have normal vision longer than if you took 1 pill? How does this make sense...if you take 2 pills your gonna feel the effects quicker because you have more drugs in your system...not longer...learn 2 drug please
    Once again:

    Faster intoxication does not imply shorter duration.

    If anyone needs to "learn"...

  6. #81

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    I just have one request, please do not reduce the usefulness of drugs to the point where they become obsolete!
    Drugs are a great way to enhance both your setup and gameplay in general. I understand the ideas behind the changes you have in mind (not only concerning drugs), but do not make Neocron too casual or simple.
    Besides drugs are probably the best cashsink in the game and one of very few to begin with.
    You could simply limit the number of drugs you can take or make it so you lose HP if the concentration in your body reaches a certain threshold, kinda like nanites.

  7. #82

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    Just had a brainstorm!

    I like the fact that there are massive bonus/massive penalty drugs because, for instance, it lets you self-poke TL100+ implants without having to sink a painful amount of skill points into your implant skill, thanks to the +40 available from stacking rare drugs. The difficulty in obtaining the drugs for the convenience balances out for me, because the alternative is just to level an alt and have them sit around your apartment. In that context you can have massive penalties and tradeoff drugs that strongly tilt your build (IE heavy +weapon skill, heavy -HLT or -ATL).

    On the other hand, I think there should be a low bonus/low penalty option that CAN be incorporated into a daily build, especially to get PEs into being able to use better weaponry because they get shafted too often. For that, we could use...

    FOOD!

    Food items are in-game but are basically "loot and eat to save on medkits" or "loot and salvage for chems" or "loot and throw on ground to despawn corpses faster", no one really cares about food. And that's a shame because I think every item needs a use, however marginal. Right now food is just a poor man's first aid kit, it duplicates existing function. I've never seen or known a runner to go into a garriot's diner except by mistake or to RP.

    Food items with buffs are a common MMO trope, and it makes sense, look at how much effort runners and weightlifters put into their daily meal plans-- if you want to perform at your absolute peak (which is what a capped character is) you have to pay attention to the input side of the equation.

    Food items could have a minor positive-only medium-duration buff, nothing massive but slotting into that "slight boost that can be relied on for your build without too much risk" category. The fact it's one more link in the logistics chain is the downside, a modest +1 to +3 stat boost with a minor amount of subskills is the benefit.

  8. #83
    i carry a laaaazer......blade gstyle40's Avatar
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    one thing i want to make sure we dont lose site of is the pe and drugs and lore of the game. as the game was made originally the pe is a "jack of all trades, master of none" the lore states that pe's have to drug to compete with the pure classes.

    with the drug changes on vedeena now i would not use any drugs at all. the negatives are to great for the positives u get from the drugs, and if u take multiple drugs in most cases the positives and negatives cancel each other out and u end up taking 2 drugs and getting nothing but the int and dex or str ect. if u were only using drugs for the +5 int ect then fine, but again pe's are meant to drug to use higher end equipment.

    i looked at the dragon drugs, and alot of people claim not to use them, but i know more people use them than will admit, and its safe to say that with the changes made to dragon drugs, nobody will use them ever again lol. i know its not the finished product, but as the changes to drugs are as of right now, i would not use any of them.....and this comes from someone who uses drugs on titan in all pvp setups except on ppu's.

    the added negatives to drugs just takes it over the top. drugflash is the negative, and in my opinion it was fine. just my 2 pennies.
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  9. #84

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    The intention is to make PEs viable without drugs; after all, if the PE is balanced with drugs, what happens if the other classes use them?

    I'd also disagree with the idea that the PE is a JoaT. They may draw their potency from more areas than the other classes, but that means they require a higher degree of specialisation.
    If there is a JoaT in NC, it's the Spy. They have enough skill points available that speccing recycle, vehicle use and/or hacking (and other skills) does not impact their viability as much as if a PE were to do the same.

    I probably did go a bit far with the dragon drugs though.
    Bragi
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  10. #85
    i carry a laaaazer......blade gstyle40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bragi View Post
    The intention is to make PEs viable without drugs; after all, if the PE is balanced with drugs, what happens if the other classes use them?

    I'd also disagree with the idea that the PE is a JoaT. They may draw their potency from more areas than the other classes, but that means they require a higher degree of specialisation.
    If there is a JoaT in NC, it's the Spy. They have enough skill points available that speccing recycle, vehicle use and/or hacking (and other skills) does not impact their viability as much as if a PE were to do the same.

    I probably did go a bit far with the dragon drugs though.
    im really just taking it back to the lore of nc. the purpose of the pe originally was to be the "JoaT". not meant to use the high end weapons like the other classes, but could do all things well enough. thats not my idea of the pe, thats what it says in nc1 is their roll.

    while i understand what u are trying to do, drugs in nc 2.3 ect are a lot different than what they were way back when. With the implementation of the xforte's, those drugs really pushed what drugs could ultimately do coupled with caps being taken away was a recipe for disaster.

    good luck reigning all that in......and yea, dragon drugs are too harsh
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  11. #86
    OWNAGE alive! OLD No.7 BrAnD's Avatar
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    Don't like the new drugs at all tbh. Now you get a double/(triple) restriction by drugflash and minus stats (and rezz/downtime). Most of them do not represent a special value, very few can be of use with certain setups, but nothing great at all (costs are exponentially higher than benefits). Maybe you should rethink the way you approach the whole thing, or at least which stats they reduce, because right now you could have taken them out of the game and it will have pretty much the same effect...none uses them. But i think i pointed out my opinion in several posts before.
    Last edited by OLD No.7 BrAnD; 19-07-15 at 01:25.

  12. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by gstyle40 View Post
    im really just taking it back to the lore of nc. the purpose of the pe originally was to be the "JoaT". not meant to use the high end weapons like the other classes, but could do all things well enough. thats not my idea of the pe, thats what it says in nc1 is their roll.
    I think we have a different idea of what a JoaT is (which has been a long running debate over NC's history).

    Quote Originally Posted by OLD No.7 BrAnD View Post
    right now you could have taken them out of the game and it will have pretty much the same effect
    Drugs = Better?
    vs.
    Drugs = Different option?

    Is increasing you DEX by +5 and AGL by +20 not worth -15 HLT?

    Edit:
    The actual numbers involved can be changed. The question is about what role drugs play; An all-encompassing necessity for PvP, a mechanism for alternative setups outside the implant/PA system or something inbetween.
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  13. #88
    OWNAGE alive! OLD No.7 BrAnD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bragi View Post
    Is increasing you DEX by +5 and AGL by +20 not worth -15 HLT?
    as i said

    Quote Originally Posted by OLD No.7 BrAnD
    Most of them do not represent a special value, very few can be of use with certain setups, but nothing great at all (costs are exponentially higher than benefits).
    Most of the other drugs though are useless now, fact! Why would i use a drug if the cost-benefit ratio is not given?

    They never have been mandatory in op-fights at all (except for the anti-freeze drugs at a certain time). Im pretty sure we lost more fights due to drug-rezzes and people who couldn't delay the flash any longer than we won because of drug using/the boost they give. There are a lot of people who don't use/don't want to use drugs and thats completely fine. As we mentioned before, the only real thing is when 2 equally skilled players duel eachy other, than the drugs do influence the outcome. In an actual op-fight it's not mandatory, maybe due to certain setups "needed", but for sure not because you'll lose the fight if you don't take them.
    Last edited by OLD No.7 BrAnD; 19-07-15 at 12:42.

  14. #89
    i carry a laaaazer......blade gstyle40's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bragi View Post
    I think we have a different idea of what a JoaT is (which has been a long running debate over NC's history).
    really? ive never had this debate with anyone because anyone who actually pllays all aspects of the game would understand what number one what jack of all trades, master of none actually means. Your argument is that a spy can do all these things int/dex based in the game because of the amount of points they have available. But in actuality they are indeed the "Masters" of technology, so that in itself eliminates them from being a candidate of JOAT. You are totally disregarding the psi skill, and the str skill. joAC....dont forget about ALL TRADES. a spy can bring nothing to the table strength wise or psi wise, where as a pe can definitely do things. PSI pe can rez and cast low level buffs(very usefull skill to have) have u ever heard of a heavy spy? how bout melee spy? neither have i. in nc1 those were very viable setups for pe's paw of tiger pe was the tits, as was tpc pe. a pe used to be able to gun a rhino as well as drive most other vehicles. the hightest a spy could gun was a scorpian trike. anyone who plays nc knows that the pe is the most versatile class in this game period.

    now back on topic....

    yea bragi, as old no 7 said, and i think i said it also. the negatives completely out weigh the positives at this point and nobody in their right mind would bother with them.
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  15. #90
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Have you considered doing away with negatives of drugs all together?

    What about having different negatives dependent on your class/constitution.

    If the drugs could weaken a specific area that the class could afford to lose out on perhaps then maybe it might be easier to balance. Drugs affect different people in different ways in the real world so why not in NC.

    Why not do away with half the drugs you have currently and have a handful only, balance them and then introduce tiers of them to people the way you have now.

    (I havent read more than the last 2-3 pages of this discussion recently so apologies if this already came up).

    P.s

    the PE IS the jack of all trades - that should never be questioned. As Mace already said - It is in the book from the original boxed set of NC1. I still have mine at home somewhere and it is widely known by everyone with a working knowledge of NC.

    Slightly off topic: There was a really good thread made by Vetterox in the archives about PEs and the old Synaptic Accelerators and how OP they were at the end of NC1 - Vett had 2 of them (apparently) and other people whined about it and how it wasnt fair due to the broken MC5 mechanics of the day (no glass wall any more to AOE through). But anyway the points made in that thread were about how to balance the PE against everyone else as you increase and decrease their abilities too - this is the discussion that has raged on down the years rather than the PE not being the JOAT.
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