[R#191] T#192 / 193 / 194 / 195 - Patch Discussion

[hatmankh]

I guess we've given up on fixing beam weapons and have started converting them all to bursts instead now.

[Ryan Steiner]

any who the 2 files that we all had to download and install were msvcr120.dll and msvcp120.dll. we found out what to download by trying to launch the client outright and getting the error message msvcr120.dll is missing.

msvcr120.dll and msvcp120.dll are part of the Microsoft Visual C++ 2013 Redistributable Package.

Of course it's Neocron's fault that the respective Microsoft installer did not install these files correctly on your computers ....

[nabbl]

Here is a slow motion video clip of Falk Keegan using a jump hack on his pe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HItp...ature=youtu.be

HAHA... I died laughing here

There is no such thing like desync in Neocron which could explain what happened there? Tino you are just absolutely ridiculous. I have seen players flying in the air, warping through walls, coming trough ceilings in my appartment and stuff like that. Neocron is based on old tech which is based on much older tech going back to a time where 56k Modems were a thing. Get over it.

A "Jump" Hack ... you got to be kidding me.

Falk is not a bad PvPer. That's all. Learn to lose.

[Nidhogg]

Please don't accuse others of cheating. Nine times out of ten it's just a glitch. Thanks.

[Bifrost]

A note on the missing msvcr120.dll and msvcp120.dll files. Those files are part of Visual C++ Redistributable Packages for Visual Studio 2013 Make sure you install the vcredist_x86.exe regardless whether you run 64 or 32 bit versions of windows.

I have updated the Neocron installer to install the new C++ runtime, but it's currently being QA'ed internally at this time.

To make sure that I'm not missing any related issues, for the people who had issues with missing files can you confirm your OS version including whether it's 32bit or 64bit.

[Zoltan]

Okay, thats way to much.

1) You guys did a clearly violation against our Rules Of Conduct

2) You guys are seriuosly talking about "Jump" hacks in a game with a poorly implementation of the Y-Axis interpolation... short: Neocron really gives a s**** on it

3) You guys didn't get manage to install a very simple Redist which was mentioned several times now ... but its okay for you to download DLL files from a doubious online storage.

A short question about that: Are you serious?

It's okay for me to have a opinion about the changes, feedback is always very welcome but you guys did NOTHING of them just blame a person who was apart from Dasore, Torrez and Polyverse the MOST ACTIVE users on the test server.

Think about it and PLEASE leave this thread for the original intention - gave feedback about the changes on Vedeena.

PS: I promise you to move you directly to /DEV/NULL if I need to read such rasistic phrases like "They don't want your feedback because you are not german" again.


@ Divide

Dropping single DLL files into the Neocron directory is definitely the wrong way... these files are NOT registered in you Windows installation so Windows Update won't find them if an update is needed.

[Tino]

[edited]

[slith]

[Edited]

[Massaker]

The Libra sounds like that the last shot of the first burst got skipped by the first shot of the second burst (so two sounds quite synchronous). How to add a little break like 0.05-0.1 seconds?

Changing the burst of the First Love from 2 shots to 4 shots is a good idea to make the stamina consumption more realistic and the weapon more efficient in fights. Good change

[Divide]

@ Divide

Dropping single DLL files into the Neocron directory is definitely the wrong way... these files are NOT registered in you Windows installation so Windows Update won't find them if an update is needed.

You are right, it is anything but proper from an actual package management perspective. From a delivery/usage standpoint, it is without question your best way to distribute those files. Do you really want to be forced to comment on a thread such as this one and have to gnash your teeth instead of calling people lazy idiots, like any IT person would really want to? No, you have better things to do and I support that-- telling people to RTFM only works if they are inclined to take direction. I actually told someone directly on teamspeak, after this thread was well on its way, to go to the thread and download the VC redist-- they resisted it like 4 times. And then they failed to get on the test server. What was it worth, me telling them to do that? What was it worth, you writing the instructions? It probably took more time to write the instructions than if you were to include those dll's in the patch.. I understand your purpose, in the business world if you don't get explicit in text you can't expect any results. I know you know how work is done, your notes and releases prove it. They work for me, and others who consume data like that. They don't work for others, the tldr crew can't be changed-- but they can be included and their input can be valuable.

As for updates/etc. Considering they wouldn't be touched by Windows update, or anything other than the patcher, they would ALWAYS be the right release for the game. Future management of those files would of course be delivered by the patcher, eliminating the need to use Windows Update and ensuring the compatibility, and error-correction via nc file checker if something were to happen to the file.

[Bifrost]

As for updates/etc. Considering they wouldn't be touched by Windows update, or anything other than the patcher, they would ALWAYS be the right release for the game. Future management of those files would of course be delivered by the patcher, eliminating the need to use Windows Update and ensuring the compatibility, and error-correction via nc file checker if something were to happen to the file.

This is against Microsoft's Recommended Practice. It's very rare that Microsoft would do an update to a C++ runtime library that breaks compatibility and if they did, there would be a lot of people up in arms about it. What if there was a security update in one of the dll's? Windows update would update the dll's in system32, but it would not update the dll's in your games folder that your downloaded, leaving yourself potentially open to attack by hackers.

Due to the age/limitations of the Neocron patcher it's difficult to redistribute and run VCRedist_x86.exe. It's an issue I'm aware of, and has been partially addressed by the Neocron Installer but there will be issues when it comes to installing the C++ libs when this test patch goes to retail.

[Divide]

We're going to do it the impractical, frustrating, non-user-centric way because some technical writer at Microsoft slapped some text on a page and told us...
P.S. viruses and hackers.

Wait for it...

If you want to achieve isolation, you can either link statically, or copy the specific Visual C/C++ DLLs to the application local folder along with their other binaries. An application local folder is a folder that contains an executable application file. DLLs must be deployed to the application local folder.

It is a perfectly legitimate way to distribute, and again-- without question: Neocron's best way to serve its users and volunteer staff.

It would have completely defeated the need for this conversation, the waste of time people took to write instructions and link binaries, the time wasted and severe frustration by community members who honestly want to help.

Recommended Strategies

Use the following strategies when redistributing the C/C++ run time components with your drivers and applications.
For applications installed under Program Files:
Use the Visual C++ Redistributable Package (VCRedist_x86.exe, VCRedist_x64.exe, VCRedist_arm.exe), which deploys the CRT under System32. In this case, the redistributable package can be updated automatically.
Alternatively, install the DLL(s) to the application local directory (copied directly to the directory where the application is installed), or link statically to the CRT. In this case, the CRT would need to be serviced manually.

[Zoltan]

First thing: This is a testserver no retail, an updated installer is planned for the retail release.

Did you'd missed these (important) lines?

It's an issue I'm aware of, and has been partially addressed by the Neocron Installer but there will be issues when it comes to installing the C++ libs when this test patch goes to retail.

So please calm down. Just for example: Steam or other deployment paltforms aren't deploying single VC++ DLLs too - they just installing MSI packages, why? Think about it.

[Divide]

PS: I promise you to move you directly to /DEV/NULL if I need to read such rasistic phrases like "They don't want your feedback because you are not german" again.

We want to help Zoltan, we honestly seriously 100% want to help. We love the game, we love the NST even though at the same time we really want to curse you all out. We know you love the game and to some odd extent maybe us too... we just feel completely and totally out of control of something that we all love. It is gut-wrenching to love something unrequited.


When we get on the test server and we hear that special requests went from one person who lives in the same country as the lead dev and they did it. Like that day. Yet in previous iterations of testing, several attempts were made to call attention to severe issues there was no action. It feels like we're there for nothing. And it makes us desperate for attention.

We love Neocron. Won't Neocron love us back, like in public near the cool kid's table at lunch?

[Divide]

First thing: This is a testserver no retail, an updated installer is planned for the retail release.

Did you'd missed these (important) lines?

I read them, but maybe interpreted them differently than you may have.

I read that Bifrost says it has partially been addressed, but there will be issues when retail comes. That sounds to me like the or a different problem related to this will exist in retail.

So please calm down. Just for example: Steam or other deployment paltforms aren't deploying single VC++ DLLs too - they just installing MSI packages, why? Think about it.

Only passionate because... well you read my previous post. The Neocron Launcher isn't Steam. Steam isn't a game, or a game's specialized launcher. Nor is Origin, or uPlay. they don't distribute anything but the game. If the game fails to properly package the VC redists, the game fails to launch. That game will probably sell for .25cents US in the first Steam Sale it can wiggle its way in to.
As for the MSI packages, I assumed that may was beyond the scope of the patcher. That would clearly be the best way to do it.