1. #1

    Default [R#189] Patch Discussion Thread

    Hello Runners,

    Please feel free to discuss the balancing "hotfix" patch, R#189, in this thread. The link to the patch notes and a launch statement can be found in this thread.

    Sincerely,
    Your Neocron Support Team
    Alduin
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  2. #2
    freedom for neocron! Torg's Avatar
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    i especially love this change: "Damage of NPC AoE weapons has been increased by a factor 2." i had the impression, that in R#186/7/8 NPCs experienced the same AoE damage change runner weapons did, which made NPC attacks like cyclops or warbot rockets way too weak. i'm glad this detail was getting fixed.

  3. #3
    Tessier-Ashpool S.A. slith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torg View Post
    i especially love this change: "Damage of NPC AoE weapons has been increased by a factor 2." i had the impression, that in R#186/7/8 NPCs experienced the same AoE damage change runner weapons did, which made NPC attacks like cyclops or warbot rockets way too weak. i'm glad this detail was getting fixed.
    AFAIK those 2 are not area damage attacks. Could be wrong tho.

    Love the drones now.

    "A bug causing PvE DoT corrections to be applied twice has been fixed." - This makes PvE DoT stronger i assume?
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  4. #4

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    I'm assuming the actual truth of this latest patch was to nerf the broken weapons all the skilless ppl are whoring, but it is also affecting ANY weapon that does stack dmg.

    Some examples:
    #1: I stacked my test tank with 5 closed reticle Devourer shots, the dot damage read 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1, and my health wasn't dropping below where it went down to after the 5th shot. Meaning the stacks really are basically doing no damage.
    #2: SWAT backup gun fired on an un-shielded ppu = stacks did 4-3-3-3-1 from 3 shots.

    Dunno why I'm bothering with this since yall apparently didnt wait for us to test & post details from the test server. (honestly, how long would it take a GM to log into their own test server & shoot an alt account to see that "oh, yup, we didn't fix the DoT damage right.....actually kinda nerfed it to hell.") Or do GMs not know how to dual-log in their own game? MANY of us, would not be surprised.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sevendust View Post
    Dunno why I'm bothering with this since yall apparently didnt wait for us to test & post details from the test server. (honestly, how long would it take a GM to log into their own test server & shoot an alt account to see that "oh, yup, we didn't fix the DoT damage right.....actually kinda nerfed it to hell.") Or do GMs not know how to dual-log in their own game? MANY of us, would not be surprised.
    [TrollMode]
    First things first: http://www.wikihow.com/Be-Friendly second: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTFM although the manual is not quite the right place, but you get the picture, also RTFF just sounds weird ^^ third: learn to actually do maths! Oh and four your enjoyment I got a cool youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUeeIjyI7QQ[/TrollMode]

    Sorry Niddy, I just could not resist ^^

    Let's come back to being serious: the patch has been online on Vedeena since friday. We have collected tons of data ourself on our internal test server beforehand. Our internal forum has quite a lot of spread sheets concerning DPM. Nothing has been nerved, everything is perfectly in line now. Please do the maths from start to end. Balancing is not about damage per shot. It never has been. It never will be. That's what people always get wrong, horribly wrong. I am sorry, but there is no way around taking everything into account here, so calculating the actual DPM value. Proof me that I am wrong by giving me data that actually proofs that I am wrong. Fill spread sheets, calculate the dpm and then we can talk again.

    The following does not represent the opinion of the team as a whole, just mine
    Now second thing: don't ever blame anyone on the NST again! The NST is a team of volunteers who do all the hard work in their free time (me included). Our QA did an excellent job testing each and every single issue which we had on the taskboard for this sprint. All in their free time without paying is. So do not even consider again to accusing them of anything.
    Alduin
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  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sevendust View Post
    I'm assuming the actual truth of this latest patch was to nerf the broken weapons all the skilless ppl are whoring, but it is also affecting ANY weapon that does stack dmg.

    Some examples:
    #1: I stacked my test tank with 5 closed reticle Devourer shots, the dot damage read 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1, and my health wasn't dropping below where it went down to after the 5th shot. Meaning the stacks really are basically doing no damage.
    #2: SWAT backup gun fired on an un-shielded ppu = stacks did 4-3-3-3-1 from 3 shots.
    You have left out some vital information there. What was the Instant damage dealt by the weapons named above?

    Also please include the damage logs with any issues - those logs do help us a lot with identifying issues - thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sevendust View Post
    Dunno why I'm bothering with this since yall apparently didnt wait for us to test & post details from the test server. (honestly, how long would it take a GM to log into their own test server & shoot an alt account to see that "oh, yup, we didn't fix the DoT damage right.....actually kinda nerfed it to hell.") Or do GMs not know how to dual-log in their own game? MANY of us, would not be surprised.
    See Alduin's post above... However for the record, we do know how to dual-log. In fact, it's easier to dual log now with the port-randomisation feature introduced in #186.
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  7. #7

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    Somewhat rough way of answering a guy by Alduin here. I reckon you might want to respect the opinion of the users slightly more than what you are doing here. So he hasn´t done complicated logs and made fancy sheets. This is the opinion of a guy who cares for the game.

    As for not blaming anyone on the NST ever again, that´s just outrageous. Of course users should be allowed to criticize the team. If you can´t take someone disagreeing with you, or handle what users say, you shouldn´t be the one answering on forums. Arrogance at the highest level dude.

    I wouldn´t have thought that your goal was to bring DoT to 1 or 2 damage per tick, it just makes DoT so negligable as to negate the whole purpose of it. Just make all damage direct instead if that is the point.
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  8. #8
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    Default

    #1 - We support the NST and appreciate their efforts.
    #2 - Blue is right. You all may be volunteering your time, but you also run a closed shop. Any situation where doors are closed and changes are made, backlash is a potential reality. We can appreciate the good you have done while, at the same time, being frustrated with what we perceive as too much or a lack of change. Your frustration is mutually understandable, but look at why. It's the same complaint, you are both striking the same iron. It's obviously a sore spot and very likely a prime candidate for discussion.
    #3 - I love a good troll.
    #4 - All GM's should get troll versions of their names for troll posting whenever the hell they please.
    #5 - This is #5

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alduin View Post
    [TrollMode]
    First things first: http://www.wikihow.com/Be-Friendly second: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTFM although the manual is not quite the right place, but you get the picture, also RTFF just sounds weird ^^ third: learn to actually do maths! Oh and four your enjoyment I got a cool youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUeeIjyI7QQ[/TrollMode]

    Sorry Niddy, I just could not resist ^^

    Let's come back to being serious: the patch has been online on Vedeena since friday. We have collected tons of data ourself on our internal test server beforehand. Our internal forum has quite a lot of spread sheets concerning DPM. Nothing has been nerved, everything is perfectly in line now. Please do the maths from start to end. Balancing is not about damage per shot. It never has been. It never will be. That's what people always get wrong, horribly wrong. I am sorry, but there is no way around taking everything into account here, so calculating the actual DPM value. Proof me that I am wrong by giving me data that actually proofs that I am wrong. Fill spread sheets, calculate the dpm and then we can talk again.

    The following does not represent the opinion of the team as a whole, just mine
    Now second thing: don't ever blame anyone on the NST again! The NST is a team of volunteers who do all the hard work in their free time (me included). Our QA did an excellent job testing each and every single issue which we had on the taskboard for this sprint. All in their free time without paying is. So do not even consider again to accusing them of anything.
    Good Job Alduin, Zoltan and the other volunteers! the patches go to the right way!

    Keep your peckers up!
    dafuse | PPU-Titan |

    Wer Rechtschreibfehler findet kann sie behalten!!!

  10. #10
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    Default

    Hello.

    I like the whole balance issue being in effect... but I'm just saddened to see that NPC AoE damage got buffed again. I got used to shooting cyclops at the bunker without risk of death.

    Also, there seems to be an issue with the 'defs\weapons.def' file. When patching the game, I received that the file may be corrupted during the initial download. Ran the check file integrity utility, and weapons.def was set that it would be redownloaded... yet every time I launch the game, I just simply get an error message:
    -----------------------
    File System Check failed: 1 file(s) corrupt or missing:

    defs\weapons.def

    The application will now shutdown. You may used the NeocronLauncher's "Check Files..." option to scan and repair the broken files.
    ---------------

    Herp. Maybe the launcher with the new update can't restore a file, or maybe something else happened. Either case, something broke.

  11. #11
    Chairwoman FA
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    Default Genrep Problems

    Has anybody noticed that since the last patch, the genrep window shows 14 locations, however the last 2 are not clickable or moveable. This is very annoying.
    Also any convo with a mission NPC is opening a huge window. I deff do not have a small monitor, but that window covers 2/3 rd of it and is very hard to read.
    Is the current population of NC getting so old that they need such a huge window? or maybe glasses?
    Any explanation would be greatly appreciated
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  12. #12
    Registered User nabbl's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fatbackwards View Post
    Hello.

    I like the whole balance issue being in effect... but I'm just saddened to see that NPC AoE damage got buffed again. I got used to shooting cyclops at the bunker without risk of death.

    Also, there seems to be an issue with the 'defs\weapons.def' file. When patching the game, I received that the file may be corrupted during the initial download. Ran the check file integrity utility, and weapons.def was set that it would be redownloaded... yet every time I launch the game, I just simply get an error message:
    -----------------------
    File System Check failed: 1 file(s) corrupt or missing:

    defs\weapons.def

    The application will now shutdown. You may used the NeocronLauncher's "Check Files..." option to scan and repair the broken files.
    ---------------

    Herp. Maybe the launcher with the new update can't restore a file, or maybe something else happened. Either case, something broke.
    Well ... had the same problem but it redownloaded the file and then it just worked.

  13. #13
    freedom for neocron! Torg's Avatar
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    NPC melee has changed drastically. i started a new char, went for the newbie areas and got killed by single dogs and small groups of backyard scorpions. NPC melee is doing way more damage in R#189 than before, or compared to poison, fire, xray, pierce or force damage. i'll keep an eye on that.

  14. #14
    freedom for neocron! Torg's Avatar
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    (took me a while to read the damage log properly)

    this is a 16/16 rabid dog, biting me one time for half my health bar
    Local Player: HitZone verification result HEAD

    Local Player Damage - Damage processing statistics!
    Damage: 20.880 Target Force HitZone 0 - Part 0
    Damage: 17.483 (Reduction: 3.397 - 16.270 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
    Damage: 17.474 (Reduction: 3.406 - 16.313 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
    Results of this target: Damage 17.474 (Reduction: 3.406 - 16.313 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.800!

    Damage: 83.520 Target Piercing HitZone 0 - Part 1
    Damage: 75.250 (Reduction: 8.270 - 9.901 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
    Damage: 75.211 (Reduction: 8.309 - 9.948 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
    Results of this target: Damage 75.211 (Reduction: 8.309 - 9.948 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.800!
    and here comes a 34/34 hurler, hurling nades:
    Local Player: HitZone verification result LEGS

    Local Player Damage - Damage processing statistics!
    Damage: 4.590 Target Force HitZone 2 - Part 0
    Damage: 3.843 (Reduction: 0.747 - 16.270 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
    Damage: 3.841 (Reduction: 0.749 - 16.313 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
    Results of this target: Damage 3.841 (Reduction: 0.749 - 16.313 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.800!

    Damage: 3.060 Target Fire HitZone 2 - Part 1
    Damage: 2.677 (Reduction: 0.383 - 12.524 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player armor
    Damage: 2.675 (Reduction: 0.385 - 12.570 Percentage) - Damage reduced by player skills
    Results of this target: Damage 2.675 (Reduction: 0.385 - 12.570 Percentage) - ResistanceCap: 0.800!
    to me this appears imbalanced, but interesting. i mean - i could live (or die) with that, but this also maybe a sympton for something bigger. any observations, fellow runners?

  15. #15

    Default

    I would still appreciate to get the old font in citycom and local list back. Hardly readable . At least as an option.

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