1. #136
    Am KGB spy no? Hippieman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenios View Post
    Double? How come you claim for double?
    Cause I said so and my word is THE LAW.

    I'll also bbe creating an APU when I get home tonight, nostalgia trip since Monkeys were my first character

  2. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Torg View Post
    Low tech guns seem to be on the lucky side in R#188, so i checked a TL 93 pain easer assault rifle vs a TL 103 desperado street rifle via damage log.

    both guns are ammo modded and yield 150% damage on my capped spy skills. i shot a couple of warbots switching the rifles after each shot/burst. it appeared that the pain easer (damage stat perfect 114%) did bursts of 3 on a damage of 52 each (combined 156) while the desperado (damage stat artifact 120%) did 130 damage per shot. at least as long as the magazine lasts, the PE would use 3 times the ammo (compare to the street), but deal roughly 12% more damage - at a TL 10 lower than the rare street rifle.

    since the PE does 112 shots/m while the desperado puts out 50 shots/m, it would take roughly 16 secs for the PE to empty a 30 round ammo mag. the desperado would take 18 secs to empty its 15 rounds mag, so both would reload after a comparable time span.

    am i correct in assuming that the PE is clearly superior under R#188, beating a weapon 10 TL stronger by at least 10% (or more) damage per minute (damage over time)? does this effect apply to all burst weapons vs single shot guns of comparable TL?
    The PE is from those numbers clearly inferior, doing only 52*112=5824 dmg per minute, while the Desperado does 50*130=6500.
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  3. #138
    Registered User nabbl's Avatar
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    Yes Torg. You have to be carful with the stats window. When having burst weapons the frequency shots/min is exactly what it says and not "burst/minute" or "click/minute".
    So Alduin is right.

  4. #139

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    Are there some victims around to collect some data on Vedeena for me and put it into some tables? Would save me a lot of time!

    If so, please get in contact with me.
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  5. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by nabbl View Post
    Yes Torg. You have to be carful with the stats window. When having burst weapons the frequency shots/min is exactly what it says and not "burst/minute" or "click/minute".
    So Alduin is right.
    Indeed, this is why the numbers given earlier in the thread about the Ravager vs Creed actually show the latter is more powerful, since the Rav fires at 54 shots per min, not bursts. It's actual burst frequency is about 18 per min (compared with the Creed's 37), so while it's per-burst damage is higher, it's DPM is lower.
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  6. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenios View Post
    Double? How come you claim for double?
    Have you ever played the game?

  7. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by MayhemMichael View Post
    Have you ever played the game?
    Have you ever played an APU since the last patch? Sounds like you played the APU two times and conclude that the APU does less damage as other classes.

    As APU you need a very good movement to compete against other players. A rifle spy can't get the same resists as a tank. So in a one on one you have good chances to win the fight. A fight vs a tank is not so easy. So you need to know your advantages and disadvantages. On range its very diffficult for a tank to get the reticle close as fast as possible. In closed combat the tank has to move his mouse as fast as possible to hold you in his aim. So if you are moving in his player model its realy hard for a tank to aim in third person. On mid range the tank has it quite easy to aim you.

    I'm against to double the damage of the APU's because it will return monk'o'cron. The damage could be a increased little bit but not too much. The DPM of a Fire Apoc is a little bit higher as the DPM of the CS at the moment. So the damage is in line with the TL and confirm the patch notes that the APU spells do 15% (?) more damage as the cannons. So we need some fine tuning.

    Another thing is that the PSI consumption of the Anti Buffs is too low. An APU can cast 3 Anti Buffs in one minute while using one PSI booster. In the OP fights the APU's are spamming the antis too often. The frequency is also too fast and should be increased a little bit. If you have two APU's in one team they can cast 6 Antis in 15 seconds and a PPU or a damage dealer has no chance to get shields and die really fast.

  8. #143

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    I have literally played an apu for 10 years. Right now, Apu has zero chance of defeating any other class. I have a felling balancing gms are just too scared to make them viable again because of whiners of monk o cron days so they just leave it unplayable. Apu should have highest damage in the game and be easiest to kill. Right now they have about the lowest damage in game and easiest to kill

  9. #144

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    And don't give me dpm bs reply because the high freq just gives you wavy hands anyway

  10. #145

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    In other news, we think we have sorted out the DoT issue.

    We spent a bit of time going in circles looking at what looked at first glace to be very odd data.
    In the end we did a very detailed weapons test and discovered that (afawk) DoT damage was simply double what it should be.

    For internal reasons however, this will require a hardcode change to fix, which will take longer to implement.

    We may be able to release a temporary fix sooner, but that depends on further internal discussion/testing.

    I would personally like to point out that the weapons concerned tend to be those which are modded for poison damage. Even if we fix the base problems, certain classes are going to be more vulnerable than others (48% of intended Wargas Flamer damage is poison for example).
    Until we reach the armour balancing stage, where we can discuss whether any class should or should not have a specific damage weakness (and levels of protection other classes have available), said weapons are going to be 'overpowered'.
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  11. #146
    Am KGB spy no? Hippieman's Avatar
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    Any word or ETA on the drones being too damn fat to even move? I thought it was just the below TL 17 ones, but I tried the Dex 28 or 25 Fusion cannon sort and it was bugged also. I'll be making the TL37 drones tonight and I sure as hell hope those aren't bugged or I'm gonna be pissed.

    And was something going on last night? I had MASS I'VE Synchronizing issues that made doing the GEN REP trip and droning a pita.

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by MayhemMichael View Post
    I have a felling balancing gms are just too scared to make them viable again because of whiners of monk o cron days so they just leave it unplayable.
    qft of the decade right there.

    APU damage is too low at this point in time, or their frequency is too low. Regardless of either of those facts, their casting issues need to be fixed. Click and hold should work just like any other weapon in the game.

  13. #148

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    We'll have a more general update for everyone as soon as possible. This will cover what the current focus is and a time frame for the next patch.
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  14. #149
    Neocron Veteran Ascension's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MayhemMichael View Post
    I have literally played an apu for 10 years. Right now, Apu has zero chance of defeating any other class. I have a felling balancing gms are just too scared to make them viable again because of whiners of monk o cron days so they just leave it unplayable. Apu should have highest damage in the game and be easiest to kill. Right now they have about the lowest damage in game and easiest to kill
    this. If any class gets the jump on you, you are extremely likely to die and within seconds. Its just such a hassle to play the class as the malus of dying is such a chore.

  15. #150
    Neocron Veteran Ascension's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bragi View Post
    In other news, we think we have sorted out the DoT issue.

    We spent a bit of time going in circles looking at what looked at first glace to be very odd data.
    In the end we did a very detailed weapons test and discovered that (afawk) DoT damage was simply double what it should be.

    For internal reasons however, this will require a hardcode change to fix, which will take longer to implement.

    We may be able to release a temporary fix sooner, but that depends on further internal discussion/testing.

    I would personally like to point out that the weapons concerned tend to be those which are modded for poison damage. Even if we fix the base problems, certain classes are going to be more vulnerable than others (48% of intended Wargas Flamer damage is poison for example).
    Until we reach the armour balancing stage, where we can discuss whether any class should or should not have a specific damage weakness (and levels of protection other classes have available), said weapons are going to be 'overpowered'.
    Gives APU's DoT back while you're at it.

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