Any love for some negative SL gameplay?

[Torg]

...Even EVE, with everything getting dropped on death, is actually a bit easier than Neocron. If i want to PvP without losing anything on Eve, all i need to do is get a faction high enough, store my clone there, make a fresh clone without any implants, get a small ship i don't care getting blown up, and then sail off. If i die, i just pop back to my other clone with all my imps and main ship. No prob.
Again, at least with EVE, there was systems where you could "store" your clone, make a fresh one with your stats, and pop off in a tiny fighter and get killed with 0 penalty. It's funny you compare Neocron with Eve, because imo Eve is even EASIER than neocron to just run out and pvp. I'd rather lose tons of small fighters, corvettes, even a battlecruiser with no prob compared to losing say...my WOC PA on my PE on neocron.

Jumping on an empty clone and into a tech 1 frigate (i dont remember corvettes tbh) to get killed painlessly in Eve is like making a new 0/2, pulling the LE and starting to shoot at ppl with you starter pea shooter pistol in NC. Losing your WOC PA in a fight in NC is more like crashing your tech 2 battleship or carrier on your main char in Eve.

afaik you dont lose SL in a battlezone. so... but yes, if you are in red, you should have a working OZ 8 jail, missions to it, and a way to get out of the mess if you want to. just in case.

[William Antrim]

The point is people do want to fight in places that arent organised affairs like at ops.

The short version of this thread should be to make Pepper Park into a battleground zone. Remove all penalties for killing other runners and only give rewards.

There is still the risk of belt loss, there are still penalties to dying, but it would bring back that element of fear that the zone is sadly lacking at the moment.

[Torg]

Yes, there should be a battlezone, somewhere in the city. a storage underneath plaza 2 or something. pepper park is dangerous enough, as it is. no penalties for killing (F6) enemies. and at least its the homeplace for young runners, isnt it?

[Artricia.]

Yes, there should be a battlezone, somewhere in the city. a storage underneath plaza 2 or something. pepper park is dangerous enough, as it is. no penalties for killing (F6) enemies. and at least its the homeplace for young runners, isnt it?

agreed. i would like PP to be a battlezone (shit, noobs got LE chip), but just a zone near p1 that's a battlezone would go a loooooooong way. like that power control room or whatnot.


i dunno. people see red SL as a punishment mechanism....i would like to see it possible to RP as someone with red SL. It's a lot of game mechanic that noone really sees unless they "fuck up and hit someone accidentally", in which case they run off and aren't seen for a while. /shrug.

Good ideas though, everyone. They're changing SL and adding more missions in a few patches, i suppose ill wait and see how it changes, then maybe see where we stand.

And i really like trivaldi's idea of a "premium GR" service idea.

[Alduin]

In my opinion the premium GR service idea is very good And I think the "downtime due to death problem" and the "-SL playstyle problem" should be looked at separately from each other.

My current standing point on the "downtime problem" is that the downtime is too large at the moment, but on the other hand we do not want Neocron to become another Quake-like game. The Neofrag might become something like a Quake-like Neocron, but before touching that we need to fix other issues, like the balancing first

Concerning the "-SL playstyle problem" I think that being a bad ass has to be punished. I also think that one should watch oneselves fire, so one should also be punished in case some kills or damages someone accidentaly. However, I agree that the punishment is a little bit too high at the moment for the later case. And I also agree that there is no real "-SL playstyle" at the moment, there are some crucial things missing to that at the moment, but you will soon(TM) see what I am referring to there

[Doc Holliday]

i dont know what you spent your time with,

ESO. WOW and every decent shooting game out there. Click and go. No downtime. These are just two. Matrix online (when it was running) was the same. Die, respawn and run back to your mission/quest. I dont often play a wide range of MMOs but with these being some of the mainstream ones thats a fair example to reply to your point.

Death in neocron is a pain in general. You seem to be the only one who wants to keep it in 2003 game mechanics. Even in UO when you died and lost all your stuff you could at least run back and pick it up (praying the killer wasnt corpse camping).

Neocrons death system worked very well once upon a time but its biggest flaw was its reliance on a steady population (poking).

Logging off dead because you know you wont get poked is not what people should have to do.

[Torg]

Neocrons death system worked very well once upon a time but its biggest flaw was its reliance on a steady population (poking).

thats why we all have poking alts. problem solved. now lets prepare the situation for new players to join us and have a great time.

[damien vryce]

Torg if only I could say openly what 90% of the community wants to say to you in all the durogatory since that it demands but I'd like to keep my forum account in good standing or else nidd will chase me down. read between a the lines and you should get the drift have a wonderful day.

[DIABLO666]

If it is changed it needs to be minor, say lower it to 2 objects with open belt and no safe slot, if theres no proper downside to it you may as well remove factions so people can just free for all murder each other.

Hell theres those who might say it shouldn't be changed at all and I'm one of them... killing allies isn't something your encouraged to do, the red sl downsides are meant to stop you killing your allies while giving you the option to now and then if you really want. You seem to want a system where its possible to just kill all your allies and stay at -100sl making the whole sl system pointless.

As for dropouts idea yes that should be implemented right away, its such a pain when you accidently hit somebody with 1 bullet and suddenly lose a TON of sl. Thats the real issue, people who purposefully kill allies should be punished hardly if they keep it up, its when people get that harsh punishment for having 1 bullet go stray that things get bad.

[DIABLO666]

Death in neocron is a pain in general. You seem to be the only one who wants to keep it in 2003 game mechanics. Even in UO when you died and lost all your stuff you could at least run back and pick it up (praying the killer wasnt corpse camping).

Neocrons death system worked very well once upon a time but its biggest flaw was its reliance on a steady population (poking).

Logging off dead because you know you wont get poked is not what people should have to do.

True, the whole problem with zone line whoring became a problem because people don't want to die as it involves waiting for the SI then finding a poker so your out of the fight for a while, combine this with needing repairers as well and you end up with huge amounts of downtime when all people want to do is fight.


As much as we love this game there are certain things that on reflection (and having seen many other MMO since it was releaseD) could do with being changed, death is one of them. I'm not up for no downsides at all, part of what makes combat in neocron so exciting is that death has a penalty, in other MMOs pvp isn't tense because theres just no downside, hell most other MMOs iv played I use death as a quick transport system.

Implants coming out needs to stop being a thing (at least for now) perhaps when theres a bigger community it can come back but right now its too much, I use 2 MC5 implants and I need both to use my guns, if 1 falls out and theres no tl115 poker online I just need to log off and keep checking in too see if ones logged on.

SI and dropping an item is good enough, though in all honesty the whole belt system could do with being changed, its sort of unfair that tanks have no chance of getting an item from people they kill and even PEs struggle to manage it (especially with sl100 belts). I'm not sure how it should be changed as I like the idea of items dropping (plus its needed for the red sl system) but classes other than spys should be able to benefit from it.

[arthego]

I like the idea of the Premium GR system, it's basically like paying for bail and would help keep the servers up.

Along that same idea though what about a Parole system. Say either after paying some creds, a mission, or something, your char is put on parole. While on parole your char would have to use an "LE style" imp so you couldn't attack anyone (maybe people could attack you, maybe not). This would be a heavy price for depending on what slot the imp would take. Maybe a foot slot that lowers moment speed, a special PA that can't be removed, etc etc.

Anyways, you basically have to follow a special set of rules imposed by NCPD and sever your time, but you'd be able to interact with other players and continue to play with your red SL while it comes back.

[Divide]

About which situation are we talking? City fights? Just don't do AoE.
Caves? Shit happens, watch where you shoot. If someone gets in you way constantly, tell him and then stop rezzing him.

Not talking about aoe. I'm talking about splash from plasma and the fact that my aim isn't what it used to be, so a stray burst may find its way into the back of an ally or neutral.

Maybe the answer to part of this is to put the punishment in the hands of the person who died, like you see in some other games. After their death at the hand of an ally/neutral, the player themselves has an option to choose a type of punishment, or to not punish at all.


SL has always been a cool mechanic in NC that I don't have any desire to see eliminated. It does need to mature, but if the input leads to gridlock that will never happen. Those who don't understand the problem, or think it should stay the same are doing nothing but holding the game back. Bow out of the thread and let change come. If it sucks, scream out i told you so and go on a bender to fix it. We're talking about a component to the game that has caused a number of players to quit... not a component that made a number of people stick around.

No one keeps playing this game because they have 100 sl. Plenty have quit because they hit -100.

[saadow]

Didnt die on Titan yet. Not enough spare time to go full neocron, sadly. And no, i dont want to change the rules. You do. Sorry, im still opposing attemps to make the game more convenient for deathmatch aspirants. right now you lose SL for being inattentive at PvP. and right, thats a nuisance. i believe it should stay this way. really, i wouldnt want us to lose weapons, armour, inventory, implants and some exp on death. like in certain other MMOs.

on second thought: really, you think ppl stop fighting because of fear of (ingame) death? bah. carebears.

You are the champion of my thoughts. +1 this, 100%.

[Faid]

We need to fix the clan war function in neocron. How can I fight all day at outposts against a clan who Is allied with my clans faction then not fight them in the city? Clan war would fix this problem.

[Torg]

clan wars +1