[R#186] T#186-T#197 Patch Discussion

[arthego]

Yay, just got back from vacation. Gonna try to finish up my APU data and get that up.

Not sure that drones should be able to out range things to much their already low risk to the user.

[Artricia.]

soooo..... me and and arthego decided to test out some pvp on vedeena....trying out the uberest of the uber OP builds.

[Alduin]

soooo..... me and and arthego decided to test out some pvp on vedeena....trying out the uberest of the uber OP builds.

Yay! Moooore of these! So melee is overpowered compared to other weapons?

[Ascension]

I've just logged on to test the APU, It appears that if you hold click in the shooting range there is an issue with looping actions and miscasting/zero damage.

This can be replicated by targeting and holding your mouse button down.

[Artricia.]

Yay! Moooore of these! So melee is overpowered compared to other weapons?

haha! glad you like. Hmmm, honestly that wasn't a fair match, i think he had some junk knife and i had a paw of tiger xD. But hmmm, i wouldn't say so. We did another match (and shadowplay was being a bitch and wasn't working so i couldn't cap it) with a apu and my melee pe, and my melee pe won....


so i would say vs apu, it could actually be viable. vs anything else in a 1v1? still pretty nerfed. who knows though, perhaps with a tl 115 devils grace...




Glad you like the vids though! Gonna pop out some more of these and a bit more balanced. If i can coax a few more on test i'd like to setup a mock op fight, preferably we could cap it on multiple POVs.

Cheers!

[arthego]

I've just logged on to test the APU, It appears that if you hold click in the shooting range there is an issue with looping actions and miscasting/zero damage.

This can be replicated by targeting and holding your mouse button down.

I wasn't able to replicate this issue. The only thing I found was audio stacking and missing animation frames due to cast speed. Is it possible some of your stats were to low and the spell was genuinely casting poorly?

Freq 81 = 0.74 casts a second, each damage tick can be seen appearing at this speed, hand seems to stutter due to lack of time for animation but all damage is dealt and appears on screen.
Freq 67 = 0.98 casts a second, each damage tick can be seen appearing at this speed, hand animates more as you would expect.

[arthego]

He's an explination why my APU data table is taking longer then expected

OK, looks like with release candidate 6 there was a 2x multiplier added to the cost of psi spells. If this was to help fix the issue of low end spells being free, it didn't work and it would be awesome if we could go back :P watch the below video.

The Tl 2 Crahn Energy Bolt costs 2 psi but never takes anything from your pool (not shown in video). The TL Crahn Energy Ball takes 6 psi to cast but only takes from your pool every other cast (shown in video).

I haven't figured out the full pattern to this issue but believe it may have to do with a rounding issue in the formula. This would explain why it has no effect on higher cost spells but a dramatic impact on low cost spells.

Example of my theory

/conspiracy (explanation at the end I promise)

If Tl 2 Crahn Energy Bolt Cost = 0.3 psi (this is the true value in the game) then this is rounded so it can be displayed as a whole number 0. The game rounds up so it displays 1 due to a min cast requirement then the new 2x multiplier kicks in making it show 2 (no further rounding due to no decimal value) cost while the game still sees 0.6 psi cost resulting in no Psi ever being removed from the pool. This would be the result of 2 different variables being used 1 to display the value while one is the true in game value. (this would not surprise me there was a similar issue with burst frequency not displaying correctly with guns)

How do I feel this happened?

I don't think this was ever an issue in the past but once implants started using decimals I think it showed up (or maybe it's always been there I cant see the code to check ). This is were things get weird in my conspiracy theory! All psi spells check to see if you have Psi Amp +1, is it possible that this is referring to the implant itself. The reason I wonder this is the gauntlet gives you Psi Abilities Level +1 (it displays this way on both the glove info and your imp bonus listing) but the spells check for Psi Amp +1. If spells are actually checking against the imp is it possible that the spells are actually using decimal values (I don't know what variable values are in the code or how it's structured) after that transition was made in the game? This would be an issue because everything surrounding them doesn't use decimals and doesn't display them thus where this rounding issue may be coming from.

/Conspiracy mode

OK, I know all this may sound crazy and a bit to take in but bottom line.

1. Adding the 2x multiplier didn't fix anything except make psi uneven to guns. Psi have to use skill point to increase their Psi pool no other class has to do this (at Psi 100 with 100 ppw and 100 psu your psi pool is 374). Cannons typically have 60 (plasma wave) to 30 (Ray Gun Ammo), that comes out to 45 shot prior to reloading average. Math time, what would a psi's pool need to be to cast 45 times without reloading. 31*45=1395 psi pool. OK, now reloading takes time, psi boosters regen your psi quickly however they take quick slots that could be used for stam boosters, other spells, med kits, nanites. being as psi spells only really ever do 1 type of damage having a few available is a must. Anyway, back on topic.
As Psi cost was initially with the 197 patch 19*45=855 psi pool, this is still more then double what your actual psi pool is. I feel this was a fair balance, psi still have to reload more often but guns have more accuracy issues and typically longer range. Thus please reconsider turning the Psi cost back on spells.

2. Please look into the potential rounding issue. They are annoying and hard to spot but I really think this is the cause of the free low end spells and may be a part of the issue in the video. My theories on possible locations are above, basically are there 2 variables, 1 for true cost and 1 for displayed cost are either potentially rounding. Also could spells have been effected when imps started using decimals.

[jj dynomite]

I'm going to be starting some testing up again and wanted to know if you guys would like testing to be done using capped stats or a tiered approach starting at the minimum requirement and moving stats up in set intervals?

[Trivaldi]

I'm going to be starting some testing up again and wanted to know if you guys would like testing to be done using capped stats or a tiered approach starting at the minimum requirement and moving stats up in set intervals?

The second approach would be incredibly helpful. We need to make sure we've not skewed mob damage (dealing/receiving) too heavily through the levelling process. While we are going to rebalance PvE in the future, there is a chance the modifications we've made for PvP balance have made some mobs too strong and others too weak. While we expect some slight disruption to the current status quo, we obviously want to avoid any significant disruption to the PvE experience.

[ancient]

not two drunk chavs windmilling each other outside a kebab house in Middlesborough.

Why did that comment make me think of Dan and his brother from Exl lmfao?

[Bragi]

I'm going to be starting some testing up again and wanted to know if you guys would like testing to be done using capped stats or a tiered approach starting at the minimum requirement and moving stats up in set intervals?

Given our focus is on PvP, capped is what we need, but feel free; as Triv said, we will be looking at PvE and the leveling process at a later stage. We're also mostly interested in the DPM/sub-skill curve so we know how skills affect performance in a clearer manner before we start doing anything with armour and implants.