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  1. #1

    Default Deployment #2 - Discussion

    Dear Runners,

    please discuss anything related to Deployment #2 in this thread.

    Sincereley,
    Your Neocron Support Team
    Alduin
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  2. #2
    Dream Cast Cursed Shadow's Avatar
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    I'll have to test it, but that DPM curve is looking quite steep.
    It lends itself to overpowering the BHG, AK, WoC Launcher, Disruptor and possibly the TL115 drones.

    I would have expected the damage to start to flatten out around TL110, but the curve does not represent this...

    As I say though, the above is speculation, the proof is in the pudding.

    Edit: *add rant about how WoC weapons should always do less damage than Rare, Hard-earned weapons here*

  3. #3

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    We realised the DPM for high level weapons was too low compared to weapons with lower Techlevel. Our initial goal was it to make the lower Techlevel weapons more useful ( > TL75) in PvP and we want to keep to this idea. However there are more factors correlating with damage than just damage factor and frequency, causing an unexpected outcome: lower TL weapons being more useful than higher TL weapons. Therefore we adjust the DPM-gain per techlevel again.
    That's the reason why it is steeper now. The focus is first of all to get the end-game PvP right. Everything else will be balanced around the end-game PvP, so expect the slope (the first derivative) to be fixed/equalized once we are happy with the end-game DPM curve. Apart from that, keep in mind that nothing is fixed yet. We have the freedom to change stuff in case it does not fit, so: braaaiiiinnnzzzz uhm, I mean feeeeedddbaackkk
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  4. #4
    Registered User Neallys's Avatar
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    I have tried a few duels, I need to do further testing though. Stamina is a bit more manageable, It's not that the current Melee system bothers me that much, but it's more appreciable to play melee without constantly spam your belt of stam boosters. Always a welcome change. As to the damage, I'm not sure how I'm testing this, I did 1v1 duels, without PPU shields, I'll try some later on with PPU shields, melee against heavy.

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  5. #5
    Dream Cast Cursed Shadow's Avatar
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    Do you have any Endurance specced?

  6. #6
    Registered User Teal`c's Avatar
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    Contact me if youre interested in a duel with your melee vs my hc.

  7. #7
    Registered User Neallys's Avatar
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    So I tried to duel a heavy combat user, it was bad. Well, stamina-wise I'm doing ok, but the DPM is way too low at the moment, even in 1v1 unbuffed combat. I'm not sure we are expected to do these test also in 1v1 situations with PPU shields, but neither the APU or me as M-C could outdamage the healing ticks.

    Slap me on the ass and call me Judy but the DPM is a bit low except for some weapon
    Keavy Oona and a bunch of clannies accounts I log on because WHY NOT on Titan, Muge/Nerije/Neal/Keavy Oona on Terra

  8. #8
    Dream Cast Cursed Shadow's Avatar
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    Are you sure that you are optimizing your points correctly?

    Many people do not realize that Endurance, Athletics and Weapon Lore are key parts of Melee Combat.

    Would be nice to know what damage you deal (on average) to a 0 resistance, no armor equipped tank.
    (For each Melee Rare)

    Just for you reference:

    Category: Melee Combat (M-C)

    Lowtech Melee Combat:
    Damage (100): Base 10 %, M-C 60 %, WEP 10 %, ATL 20 %
    Frequency (100): Base 10 %, M-C 30 %, WEP 40 %, END 20 %
    Handling (100): Base 10 %, M-C 20 %, WEP 40 %, AGL 30 %

    Hightech Melee Combat:
    Damage (100): Base 10 %, M-C 60 %, WEP 10 %, ATL 20 %
    Frequency (100): Base 20 %, M-C 20 %, WEP 20 %, T-C 20 %, END 20 %
    Handling (110): Base 20 %, M-C 20 %, WEP 20 %, T-C 20 %, AGL 30 %

    Would be nice to know your current (with imps) points in:

    WEP:
    M-C:
    ATL:
    END:
    T-C:
    AGL:
    Last edited by Cursed Shadow; 16-10-13 at 15:30.

  9. #9

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    We would also like you to test pure damage per hit across all versions of a weapon type above TL75. Eg. Cursed Soul vs TL84 Plasma Cannon, Blade of Ceres vs Tai-Chi Double-Edged, etc. This will give us a better understanding of how the updated curve is working.

    As in the last thread, please post:
    Weapon Damage %
    Weapon Frequency
    Weapon TL
    Per hit instant damage

    There should be a special NPC on Sparta on which to do these tests.

    A melee weapon of a given TL should do the same DPM as a rifle, pistol or heavy weapon of the same TL.
    As melee is dependent on sub-skills in a different manner than the other weapon types, it may be trickier to get this into practice given the implant system and tank PA.
    We would rather fix that first than simply buff melee from the outset.
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  10. #10
    Tessier-Ashpool S.A. slith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neallys View Post
    Slap me on the ass and call me Judy but the DPM is a bit low except for some weapon
    Damage on the whole is too high. Nerf PPU Buffs accordingly - gives resists some actual value and makes fights buffed vs non-buffed an actual fight.
    Falk Keegan (jump!)

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  11. #11

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    Hello everybody.

    I tested some weapons on Sparta and the result was that the damage of weapons with a lower techlevel is greater than the damage of the rare weapon.
    The curve of the deployment #2 don't match the settings of the damage on Sparta. You can see this in the following screenshots. The live tests with the weapons on other players with the weapons gave the same results as the values in the weapon info list. OK the interface language is german but I think you will understand everything

    First of all the APU single shot spells.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/cc5ff7butgol4wm/APU-BEAMS.jpg

    As you can see the Holy Lightning does more damage as the Holy Energy Beam. This is what the curve represent. But the other spells like the Holy Fire Apocalypse and Holy Frostration do less damage as the highest non-rare spells. There must be something wrong.


    Next we have the APU-Barrels. The damage values of the barrels look fine and there is no mismatch with the curve (see the next picture)

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/sm1i3xeqr3...PU-BARRELS.jpg


    The next class is the Tank. At the moment i had only the time to test the single shot hightech Cannons and the common area weapons.
    The following picture includes the Cursed Soul vs Tangent Plasma Cannon, Ravager vs Tangent Plasma Wave and the Creed vs Storm Laser

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/f9f3j2kox0...gle_Target.jpg

    As you can see all values of the Tangent Plasma Cannon are higher than the Cursed Soul. Greater rate of fire, range and damage. So if you calculate the dpm the Tangent Plasma Cannon will do more damage as the Cursed Soul.
    The next weapon is the Ravager. The Ravager does a litte bit less damage and has a less range as the Tangent Plasma Wave but the rate of fire is a litte bit higher. If you calculate the dpm of both weapons the values are very equal.
    The next weapon is the Creed and the Storm Laser. As yo can see all values of the Storm Laser are higher as the values of the Creed. The only advantage of the Creed is the rate of fire. The damage of the Storm Laser is about 62 points higher as of the Creed. The calculated dpm value of the Storm Laser is also higher as of the Creed......


    Now the last weapons - the Tank AOE Hightech Weapons.
    To make it short: all rare weapons (Doom Beamer, Malediction and Moonstriker) do less damage as the highest non rare weapons. You can see this in the following picture.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/96lucoucf9v5veo/TANK-AOE.jpg

    The conclusion of this test is that there is a point in the curve where the line drop down. Maybe it is a problem with the skill. To get a weapon with a smaller techlevel capp is easier as a weapon with a higher techlevel. This could be the reason why the non rare weapons do more damage as the rare weapons.


    Massi
    Last edited by Massaker; 16-10-13 at 22:30.

  12. #12

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    We are aware that there is a serious problem. This took us by surprise as much as anyone.

    We are trying to find out what the issue is, but as some weapon types are being affected more than others, this will not be simple (yay for NC code ).

    We will keep you posted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Massaker View Post
    Maybe it is a problem with the skill. To get a weapon with a smaller techlevel capp is easier as a weapon with a higher techlevel. This could be the reason why the non rare weapons do more damage as the rare weapons.
    This was the case with Deployment #1. We aimed for the DPM/TL rework in Deployment #2 to overcome this effect, but it seems to not to have happened.

    Edit:
    I've had an idea.

    Could you test each weapon with the MINIMUM sub-skill requirements? Also alter you other sub-skills that affect a weapons damage performance by a proportional amount. So if a weapon needs 20% less RC/HC/etc. less than it's rare equivalent, reduce your WEP as well (and similar sub-skills for melee and APU).

    This hopefully should still produce the same results, but if not, we may get a better idea of where the problem lies.
    Last edited by Bragi; 16-10-13 at 22:50.
    Bragi
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  13. #13
    Registered User Jabal's Avatar
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    no revert loom in sparta ???

    my character is 44 and i want to test some pistol on sparta but the revert loom vendor have nothing in stock.
    Pour vivre heureux vivons perché !!

  14. #14

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    no revert loom in sparta ???

    my character is 44 and i want to test some pistol on sparta but the revert loom vendor have nothing in stock.
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  15. #15
    Registered User Jabal's Avatar
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    solved , someone explain me this in sparta thanks baldur.
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