Thread: New Patch ?

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  1. #46
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropout View Post
    The major problem with this is the difficulty level of the weapons (how hard it is to use).
    Weapons like Dev and Libby are not easy to use. They need to do some more damage to make up for that.
    IMO skill should be rewarded. The harder to user, the more damage.

    Or do you want all weapons to act the exact same?

    That is where the aiming skill (weapon lore) comes into play. The tighter the reticle closes the more accurate the gun is in theory. With so many different styles of weapon to account for (e.g burst beam and aoe) then other factors will obviously play a part but you have to start with the basics. When the dpm curve is balanced you can begin to add other modifiers according to these proposed changes. Some weapons will need to be toned down invariably as others may need to be boosted. Freezers for example. This range of guns will be potentially thrown right out of whack by the changes. Their damage currently is pitiful and the freeze (as we know) is terrible. In this case no freeze is a good thing, as we all most likely agree. However suddenly if these changes are made then freezers will have a huge boost to damage and maintain SOME freeze capability. The question here is, is this too much? Is it a game breaker. That is where the community comes in.


    Quote Originally Posted by RUn3 View Post
    Don't turn this in to a carebear game. Skill is the #1 thing that makes this game unique.
    If everything becomes linear and "easy" to use, the game will die for sure, and it'll just be another mmofps shooter out there.
    What else do you propose? What other solution is there to create balancing in the game? the game is already suffering lack of population due to the incredibly poor balance it has. There are only a small handful of guns that are viable. Changing the game to accomodate more guns means more people can fight one another with their chosen weapon from a much earlier time. More viable weapons means more pvp. I dont know how it would be otherwise.

    There are players in this game even after 18 months of the server being up who have amassed thousands of parts and built hundreds of guns. These personal armouries are sat waiting for the balancing to hit and then the resurge in population that everyone is waiting for ought to finally happen.

    If the balancing is not put right that would be the death knell for nc, I can stake my oath on it.
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  2. #47
    Tessier-Ashpool S.A. slith's Avatar
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    Cant be arsed to write a long post about the different weapons characteristics because some weapons are really easy to use and have quite high TL (Dissy,BHG9). This post here sums it up perfectly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dropout View Post
    The major problem with this is the difficulty level of the weapons (how hard it is to use).
    Weapons like Dev and Libby are not easy to use. They need to do some more damage to make up for that.
    IMO skill should be rewarded. The harder to user, the more damage.

    Or do you want all weapons to act the exact same?
    Also, did you take into account that it is really hard to get certain resist types to a high level? What about fixing hit detection for beam/laser/freeze weapons and class specific resist and health efficiency first? Oh, and make PA, Armor and Skillpoint resists worth the same maybe? What about the hilarious efficiency of PPU-Shields against certain weapons (FL,PE)?

    Sry, but this is the wrong approach. I just can't imagine a TL/DPM First Love being viable when theres a TL/DPM Dissy around.

    Fix stuff first, then lower the efficiency of high level shields, lower overall damage of all weapons and then adjust every single weapon until it can compete.
    Last edited by slith; 09-04-14 at 20:14.
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  3. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropout View Post
    The major problem with this is the difficulty level of the weapons (how hard it is to use).
    Weapons like Dev and Libby are not easy to use. They need to do some more damage to make up for that.
    IMO skill should be rewarded. The harder to user, the more damage.

    Or do you want all weapons to act the exact same?
    Though it can seem like an interesting idea, there are some serious problems with it.

    Firstly, you over-reward higher skill (bear with me) and over-penalise lower skill.
    What I mean is that we want skill to be rewarded equally for all weapons. Two people of equal skill but different weapons will not be fair. Nor would two people of lower skill. It's the raw skill we want to focus on.

    Secondly, people will choose a smaller selection of weapons because they are either too hard to use or out damage others. This limits a player choice of weapons.

    That does not mean we want it to be easy. Some weapons are too easy to use, others are harder. The aiming performance of each weapon can be changed but that is a rather distant stage at this point. We want to look at the numbers first.

    Quote Originally Posted by hudsonbeck View Post
    Stuff.
    This is a base-line to work from. Each weapon class (pistol, rifle, APU, etc.) can be altered independently of each other and will be at a latter stage depending on the rest of the changes to implants and armour.

    The numbers are a total DPM, factoring the instant damage and the frequency. We have fixed the frequency of the weapons so that sub-skills do not inconsistently alter DPM as they vary. We then balanced the instant damage so that each weapon fitted to the curve.

    Quote Originally Posted by slith View Post
    Also, did you take into account that it is really hard to get certain resist types to a high level? What about fixing hit detection for beam/laser/freeze weapons and class specific resist and health efficiency first? Oh, and make PA, Armor and Skillpoint resists worth the same maybe? What about the hilarious efficiency of PPU-Shields against certain weapons (FL,PE)?
    The armour system is certainly going to get overhauled. The focus with the DPM work does not take much of the current game into assumption because the game will be worked around it, or rather for it.

    Sry, but this is the wrong approach. I just can't imagine a TL/DPM First Love being viable when theres a TL/DPM Dissy around.
    With just these changes, yes, that's right, because of how the implants currently work (or don't).

    Fix stuff first, then lower the efficiency of high level shields, lower overall damage of all weapons and then adjust every single weapon until it can compete.
    We want to work from the ground up. Hotfixing everything backwards will lead us to a tangled mess.
    We are looking at PPU related changes in parallel with this, as well the other things you mentioned. Everything is up for review and possible change if necessary.
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  4. #49
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    One patch isn't gonna fix it all Falk.
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  5. #50

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    I will say that I know where he is coming from. The current PvP situation on retail is not what we want and some tangible changes sooner rather than later are desired by much of the community.

    It might be possible to make some temporary changes while the game is being reworked, but that is not a promise and I would have to find out if it were feasible.
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  6. #51
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    How are Mob "weapons" affected by this change?

    Will their damage output based on "Level" or "TL" of the mob calculated with the new formula too?
    NC3 kommt!

  7. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sophie View Post
    How are Mob "weapons" affected by this change?

    Will their damage output based on "Level" or "TL" of the mob calculated with the new formula too?
    Without going into details, mob weapon performance is determined by their rank. They too have been balanced, though this is currently limited to NPC versions of player weapons (Ie. guns and spells).
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  8. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bragi View Post
    Without going into details, mob weapon performance is determined by their rank. They too have been balanced, though this is currently limited to NPC versions of player weapons (Ie. guns and spells).
    The hopper man! what about the hopper!

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by MayhemMichael View Post
    The hopper man! what about the hopper!
    And freaking Persi! Yeah yeah, I know they are 120/120 but still.. Damn!
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  10. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dropout View Post
    And freaking Persi! Yeah yeah, I know they are 120/120 but still.. Damn!
    As you can see there are several other problems we have to tackle while balancing all the weapons. There are bugs which influence the DPM of weapons and monsters in the game. As an example you can see that some APU spells are currently not working correctly. This makes it a lot hard to balance things correctly. Such bugs needed to get eliminated first.

    Persi damage seems to be bugged as well (personal opinion - not based on valid research). At least some of its attacks do more damage than they should. This could have a million possible reasons. PVE balancing is something we will look at at a later stage of the project.
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  11. #56
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    Sorry if this de-rails the thread a bit, but as you're talking about mob damage right now:

    Imho, more important than balancing mob damage would be to finally fix the bug of invisible mobs/invisible mob shots.
    This bug is around way too long and killing fun (at least mine) hunting.

    Can't count the times I start burning without seeing any shot or getting killed by a WB that only could be seen after a relog.
    And it can't be a local issue when 2 team mates can't see them either.

    Again, sorry for derailing.
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  12. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by pottburter View Post
    Sorry if this de-rails the thread a bit, but as you're talking about mob damage right now:

    Imho, more important than balancing mob damage would be to finally fix the bug of invisible mobs/invisible mob shots.
    This bug is around way too long and killing fun (at least mine) hunting.

    Can't count the times I start burning without seeing any shot or getting killed by a WB that only could be seen after a relog.
    And it can't be a local issue when 2 team mates can't see them either.

    Again, sorry for derailing.
    Please raise a fresh Bug Report with all relevant information and as much detail as you can provide. This is not something related to the next patch/balancing and needs to be reported correctly so we can deal with it accordingly. We believed this to be improved in a previous patch but obviously this is sadly not the case. Thanks!

    EDIT: Quick chat with Alduin. Correction to the above...

    We believed this issue had been somewhat improved (not fixed) in a previous patch, obviously this is still causing issues. I've re-opened the existing report, please post all relevant information there so we can take another look at this issue. Thanks.
    Last edited by Trivaldi; 10-04-14 at 11:54.
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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haliax View Post
    As you can see there are several other problems we have to tackle while balancing all the weapons. There are bugs which influence the DPM of weapons and monsters in the game. As an example you can see that some APU spells are currently not working correctly. This makes it a lot hard to balance things correctly. Such bugs needed to get eliminated first.

    Persi damage seems to be bugged as well (personal opinion - not based on valid research). At least some of its attacks do more damage than they should. This could have a million possible reasons. PVE balancing is something we will look at at a later stage of the project.
    Uh yes, dont get me wrong, IMO PvE balance should have a very low priority.
    As long as its not forgotten.

    Those fuckers have insta-buttraped me more than once..
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  14. #59

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    You guys (DEV team) should consider shutting down access to Titan and force all players to Test Server once you deploy the patch.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kame View Post
    You guys (DEV team) should consider shutting down access to Titan and force all players to Test Server once you deploy the patch.
    That is a great idea tbh.

    Last patch when they needed stress testing they offered double xp which got a bunch of people to play. The problem is even in the current community you have loads of people who dont actually know what the test server is or even how to use it. When they did the stress test there were still people going - "where are my characters?" and "how do i level up?"

    While it would be good having all of them for a stress test it could be both a blessing and a curse due to the actual people you get logging on, some could get pissed off and leave and others might be a tad difficult to deal with.

    If it was briefed in advance that this was the intention though I think it would work a treat.
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