1. #1

    Default Now's our chance to donate.

    http://neocron-game.com/announcement...lp-now-you-can


    "Some things to make you aware of, by donating funds, however great or small, it does not give you any extra permissions, or access rights within the game worlds, nor will donations speed up, or improve the development of Neocron. The donatations offered are solely to help pay towards the upkeep of the servers, and maybe the odd Cron '55."




  2. #2
    CmyKK F4nb01 <3 aKe`cj's Avatar
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    I have no doubt that the upkeep of NC leaves a hole in the NSTs pocket every month and I would gladly do my part to support the games survival. However, with the money being funneled into a personal PayPal account with no accountability or transparency whatsoever, surely I won't be chipping in.
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  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by aKe`cj View Post
    ...money being funneled into a personal PayPal account with no accountability or transparency...
    I am glad this fact is important to you, and I hope it is important to many others. People should wisely consider whether or not they are comfortable donating to a personal paypal account. I'm just not sure if any corporate entity can accept money for Neocron yet - if ever. I hope we receive an explanation. Worse case scenario: Zoltan personally accepts a few of my credits. I don't like to take risks, but I'm strangely at peace with the small gamble I have made.

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    Huckle Beare' Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aKe`cj View Post
    I have no doubt that the upkeep of NC leaves a hole in the NSTs pocket every month and I would gladly do my part to support the games survival. However, with the money being funneled into a personal PayPal account with no accountability or transparency whatsoever, surely I won't be chipping in.
    simple version is its highly unlikely it can be done through a corporate account due to the bankruptcy that happened and now the fact its a volunteer team thats running it all.

    im keen to donate something when i can. im glad its finally an option.
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    Something is wrong.
    Where are the people asking for free candy or Double-XP ?

  5. #5
    Don't eat that yellow snow
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    It's a donation based on goodwill, not a payment for a promised service or a product. How can you talk about accountability in such a case?

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    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    This is the internet equivalent of lending your mate a tenner in the pub basically so you can carry on hanging out together. Only Zoltan isnt your mate but he is the guy letting you use his servers for your entertainment.

    I dont know what happens in german law but in english law you are allowed to volunteer for work and receive donations towards it. It starts down the road of charities laws and things if the donations run to a certain amount and becomes an income but as far as I know if youre only donating a few pounds a month (or receiving said funds) it doesnt mean anything. It is just the same as any other "pocket change" expenditure.

    I realise that NC is not pocket change but if there are a hundred people playing and each one donates a fiver a month well thats £500 a month.

    It wont hire any new staff, it wont get any new patches out any faster and as they said it wont give you any special access. But it will ensure that the game survives for a little longer.

    My only personal request would be some form of transparency as to the funds. IE how much is needed IN TOTAL per month to donate and keep costs manageable and how much has been donated so far each month.

    I am not being tight but if everyone donates a few quid in the first month and then it dries up and we all expect someone else to pick up the slack its a bit harsh on those who do.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

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    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    My only personal request would be some form of transparency as to the funds. IE how much is needed IN TOTAL per month to donate and keep costs manageable and how much has been donated so far each month.
    Same here. Please NST give us some numbers. We want to know the costs that you have for running the servers (and buying books on NC's technology or anything else that's related) and we want to see a counter for the money that's being donated. Maybe the counter can be reset every month with a history showing the last months. I think PayPal could provide something like this online. At least I hope so, and I saw other sites displaying silimar information about donations they receive.

    Quote Originally Posted by William Antrim View Post
    I am not being tight but if everyone donates a few quid in the first month and then it dries up and we all expect someone else to pick up the slack its a bit harsh on those who do.
    That's true, especially since this quite important development was put on the site without any further information or explanation here on the forum. It makes me wonder if this move was a coordinated one. I want to know what Triv says about it.

    tl;dr
    I want to help the game too but there should be more information about the new donation option.

  8. #8
    Huckle Beare' Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Guys im gonna be honest here i think this whole disclosure thing is asking a bit much.


    At the end of the day the game has been funded privately for a good long while now and when it didnt cost anyone anything no one wanted to know any infos about it. Now that there is the possibility of it costing something people ask for a detailed breakdown of the money.

    I implore you to look at it another way. We have had it free as a community for the last year and some since the NST took over. Treat any donation you make as money owed to them in a way. You are paying back for the access already had and used.

    Second. No one is forced to donate. This is purely from a good will point of view. If you want to spend $20 or $2000 then so be it its on you but dont expect a huge deluge of info as to where what and why its being spent on. We are donors not investors. It is very unfair to be asking for a full business profile, profit and loss statement and share price and other market data

    Truthfully if I thought there was information that i would like to see more of it would be a proper development update and not some of the vague, seemingly generic updates that have been put out in the past.

    For example a summary of goals or intentions of development moving forward. A road map of ideas rather than some teasers which really dont tell us anything. That kind of thing. Not specific time stamped objectives and goals with deadlines but an overall plan. More of a strategic plan over an operational plan for anyone familiar with the terms. I have said this before in threads anyway.

    For the record, despite not actively playing I, when money allows, will still be happy to donate to the cause.

    PS. If you really want donations put a target on a site showing current donations to date and the targets needed for a goal to earn double xp and sit back and watch the cash roll in.
    Last edited by Doc Holliday; 19-03-14 at 11:54.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aKe`cj View Post
    Something is wrong.
    Where are the people asking for free candy or Double-XP ?

  9. #9
    Loving Titan L0KI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Holliday View Post
    Guys im gonna be honest here i think this whole disclosure thing is asking a bit much.


    At the end of the day the game has been funded privately for a good long while now and when it didnt cost anyone anything no one wanted to know any infos about it. Now that there is the possibility of it costing something people ask for a detailed breakdown of the money.

    I implore you to look at it another way. We have had it free as a community for the last year and some since the NST took over. Treat any donation you make as money owed to them in a way. You are paying back for the access already had and used.

    Second. No one is forced to donate. This is purely from a good will point of view. If you want to spend $20 or $2000 then so be it its on you but dont expect a huge deluge of info as to where what and why its being spent on. We are donors not investors. It is very unfair to be asking for a full business profile, profit and loss statement and share price and other market data

    Truthfully if I thought there was information that i would like to see more of it would be a proper development update and not some of the vague, seemingly generic updates that have been put out in the past.

    For example a summary of goals or intentions of development moving forward. A road map of ideas rather than some teasers which really dont tell us anything. That kind of thing. Not specific time stamped objectives and goals with deadlines but an overall plan. More of a strategic plan over an operational plan for anyone familiar with the terms. I have said this before in threads anyway.

    For the record, despite not actively playing I, when money allows, will still be happy to donate to the cause.
    I agree with this in full. I was going to say something similar, but I have no need to bother

  10. #10
    Huckle Beare' Doc Holliday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L0KI View Post
    I agree with this in full. I was going to say something similar, but I have no need to bother
    great minds think alike
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    Quote Originally Posted by aKe`cj View Post
    Something is wrong.
    Where are the people asking for free candy or Double-XP ?

  11. #11
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    I agree with Doc and LOKI to some extent but I also dont see why transparency is such an issue - to make me happy and to make me donate more than once all I would like is a page with something like:
    - total donations to date €x
    - cost of running a server a day €x
    - CapEx of a Hardware upgrade €x
    - a list of other costs (whatever else our funds will go towards)
    - NST beer fund €x (I have no qualms with support taking some cash off the table for their work as long as there's transparency on it)

    one could even go to town and do those 'temperature gauge' money target type things?

    I dont think this is unreasonable at all but knowing these forums at least one person will take offence

  12. #12

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    It's just money. I'll donate as I enjoy playing. If the money goes to strippers and blow so be it.

  13. #13
    Xpertz William Antrim's Avatar
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    I am not asking for full financial disclosure but if there is some form of gauge on how much is needed vs how much has been donated it would go a long way to "encourage" donations.

    I look at it like this - I used to pay £8 a month for NC on my account years ago. I then got a second account and paid £16 or so in 2004/5.

    Today I have 3 accounts - all have been free for a number of years now. So yeah I take Doc's analogy (I "owe" something for them) that my accounts have been free and I have had the pleasure out of playing on them.

    Totally on board with this. Hence willing to donate.

    The thing is I want to feel like I am helping. I want to feel like a part of something here. When charities phone me up and say "hey give us money to feed poor kids in Africa" I say ok but where is my money going... They are never going to say "hey it goes into a big bank account and we live off the interest" but thats the truth of the matter. However in order to get donations they say "Hey £3 builds a well and £5 gets malaria nets" so this gets more people donating.

    So convert that to NC terms

    "Give a Tank £3 and he can afford to get poked after losing a fight"

    "Give him £6 and he can get his own cs and pk those motherfuckers to death!"

    No but really.

    If they said literally - WE need £500 a month to run NC - for example and then they said - hey guys we have £400 so far this month and are almost there then it might actually motivate people to get up and chuck that extra bit in.

    You get the buy in factor, the fact that you feel like you are DIRECTLY contributing rather than pouring money into a hole with no regard.

    I think that there is a middle ground here which can be agreed upon by both sides - the donors and the NST receiving said funds. Nobody here wants to see NC die and I can only hope that people will donate but also have the benefit of that warm fuzzy feeling that you get when you see your money at work.

    TLDR?

    In short let us see the money DO something beneficial.
    "dulce et decorum est pro patria mori"

  14. #14

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    I understand where you are coming from. You get a sense of pride if you know how much running a server is costing each month and you can equate that your money is going towards that dollar amount.

  15. #15
    CmyKK F4nb01 <3 aKe`cj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MayhemMichael View Post
    I understand where you are coming from. You get a sense of pride if you know how much running a server is costing each month and you can equate that your money is going towards that dollar amount.
    There are also simple legal reasons for why more transparency is needed.
    If there is a potential that profits are made, the tax office will assume commercial operations. To get around that, the funds being raised have to be limited to absolutely rule out making a profit and need to be tied directly to the cost of server upkeep or cron'55.

    Imho a disclosure of the amounts raised and a cap should be the very least to expect.
    Something like this was suggested as early as 2012:



    It did not take off due to legal implications: no non-profit or company *insert-cheer-and-applause-for-nukklear* willing to back NC and process the funds. Afaik this has not changed, so in effect Zoltan is putting himself on the line, which may be laudable but not necessarily healthy for the project in the long run.

    Legally, the money raised is now a "gift". The tax exemption limit amounts to 20000 EUR/10 years - which is 2000 EUR p.a. or a piddling 166 EUR each month - any amount exceeding the limit is taxable with 30%(!).

    Since I assume running Neocron involves quite a bit of infrastructure and to the uneducated government official would very much look like a small software company gig. With the amount of money required to sustain NC, I predict that this whole thing will explode in someones face further down the road. At this point, it is no longer laudable, but putting Neocron in a risky situation.

    I understand it is easy to interpret my ramblings as badmouthing or naysaying (and I would lie to say my confidence in everyone around here is pristine) - let me tell you I am grateful for every single minute or dollar put forward to keep Neocron alive.

    I am just deeply worried, that all this work and blood and tears will sooner or later be in vain, because Neocron was not put back on its feet.

    While Neocron remains directly dependent on any single persons good-will, well being or simply financial situation, it remains in the struggle for survival mode that it entered with KK going down the drain.
    The call for money in this fashion does not attempt to solve the underlying issue - in contrary, it furthers the dependency and thus instability.
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